On their guitars?
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Alternative grain fillers |
So far I've used Colortone grain filler and expoxies (West and Z-poxy). Are there other alternatives being used that would work good for water-based lacquer finishes? |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Tony, what hide glue do you use for filling? Does it shrink under the finish or can you do it in one application? |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Ricardo wrote: So far I've used Colortone grain filler and expoxies (West and Z-poxy). Are there other alternatives being used that would work good for water-based lacquer finishes? There is medium or thick CA, but I wouldn't recommend it. Even with respirator and gogles it's a powerful irritant and doesn't do a great job IMHE. |
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| Author: | JHerrick [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
I'd be interested in hearing more about using hide glue as a filler as well. From my previous life as a furniture maker, I have used it for pore filling. So, I tried it on a broken side of EIR. It was about .085 and x 4 x 6 inches long. It "potato chipped" pretty badly. Granted it was a piece of unbraced/unsupported wood, and I may have flooded it too much....but I'd be hesitant to put that much moisture all over an instrument? Lots of posts on this forum about folks being cautious about using white glue on attaching fretboards because they are concerned about introducing moisture into the neck...pore fill the whole neck with a water based mixture? Like I said, be interesting to hear other people's thoughts. Joe |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Shellac and saw dust works well for me. I have been known to use coffee grounds as well. Can't get much more alternative than that. |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Elmer's wood filler putty in various colors. It applies easy with a moist towel and credit card. Dries fast and cleans up easy with sandpaper. Works great under KTM-9. Egg white. Its clear and adds a bit of character to some woods, almost aging them a little. Works well, but it may shrink a bit too much. I haven't tried this under a waterborne. Birchwood Casey, who make Tru-Oil, has a product called sealer & filler. Its a clear filler that works well. I used it under shellac/French Polish as well as Tru-Oil, but I have not tested it under a waterborne either. Its cheap but harder to find than Tru-Oil. -j. |
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| Author: | terence [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
you can use egg whites too! Warmest regards, Terence www.guitarbench.com |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
I knew egg whites can be used as a sealer to avoid bleeding (lightly spraying shellac works as well for me), but do they fill the pores on hardwoods? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
I know Shawn always talked about pore filling with egg white. Here is one of the prior discussions from the archives. There are several of them. Egg White Pore Filling |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
I read somewhere that ancient Egyptians used dried donkey dung as a pore filler....... |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
On their guitars?
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
The traditional filler used by most furniture makes and guitar factories is oil-based paste wood pore filler. Water-based fillers are also becoming fairly common. Some people have problems using these fillers, but no discussion of fillers would be complete without at least mentioning them. I use them all the time and appreciate thier qualities, especially the ability to add and adjust the color of the filler, which brings out the grain of your wood. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Barry...what are the problems that guitar builders have had with these pore fillers? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
LMI sells a non shrinking microbead based filler in nutral (spruce) and light brown color. It works very nice but my favorite is med thick CA. Quickest method of all. |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
MichaelP wrote: LMI sells a non shrinking microbead based filler in nutral (spruce) and light brown color. It works very nice but my favorite is med thick CA. Quickest method of all. Michael, do you spread the CA with a credit card or fiberboard or anything? Do you find that it needs pushing/shoving/coercing like epoxy does to get it into the pores? Multiple coats? And lastly, do you sand back to wood or leave a fine CA layer on? -j. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
JJ Donohue wrote: Barry...what are the problems that guitar builders have had with these pore fillers? Oil based fillers tend to shrink and need to cure properly (at least 24 hours, 2 days best), but they look nice and traditional. The natural/white Pore-O-Pac can be mixed with oil stain or dye. The CA method is nasty IMHO, I don't find it fills the pores quicker than, say, Pore-O-Pac, quite the contrary. 3 medium CA sessions were needed for an EIR back. I used shop towels to spread the CA, it dries fairly quickly, and sand back to the wood once dry. |
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| Author: | Dean [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
The cabinet/furniture industry uses a product called Famowood, It is a lacquer thinner based product in the form of a creamy product that uses extremely pulverized saw dust from actual woods. It is available in almost all well used wood varieties. It shrinks a little, put it on a little proud and sand level when dry ( 1/2 an hour). It is available at almost all cabinet supply outlets , or google. Takes a natural or stained finish very well. I use this in my shop and I also use my own filler made with fine sawdust and any good epoxy, ( I prefer WestSystems). |
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| Author: | Ricardo [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
So is vinyl sealer just that and not used for grain filling? |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Dean wrote: The cabinet/furniture industry uses a product called Famowood, It is a lacquer thinner based product in the form of a creamy product that uses extremely pulverized saw dust from actual woods. It is available in almost all well used wood varieties. It shrinks a little, put it on a little proud and sand level when dry ( 1/2 an hour). It is available at almost all cabinet supply outlets , or google. Takes a natural or stained finish very well. I use this in my shop and I also use my own filler made with fine sawdust and any good epoxy, ( I prefer WestSystems). are you sure about that lacquer based comment? I've always used acetone to bring back the stuff (which I call fakowood for giggles) when it gets too dry...and in all the years I've used the stuff I've never thought it smelled anything like lacquer...and I've never really been satisfied with the way it takes stain as compared to the wood around it |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
TonyFrancis wrote: Allow to dry, and then scrape excess with a sharp scraper, followed by a light sand at 220 grit. I follow with seedlac and the Nitro, but you could use many finishes over top. It works very well and perfectly clear (with no shadow like epoxys), no shrink back over time, and cheap. Tony, I assume you sand back to the wood? No adhesion problems? The technique sounds very appealing for a clear filler. |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
I haven't used it but I have heard of drywall compound being used as a filler. It sands easily and takes a stain well. It would probably be useful under waterbased finishes. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Ken Franklin wrote: I haven't used it but I have heard of drywall compound being used as a filler. It sands easily and takes a stain well. It would probably be useful under waterbased finishes. Indeed drywall compound works well and you can dye it the color you need. |
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| Author: | Dean [ Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Alternative grain fillers |
Famo can be reconstituted with acetone but it breaks down the binding agent. Lacquer thinner won't. |
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