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| can feel brace over the top http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18181 |
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| Author: | cedric verglas [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | can feel brace over the top |
Hey staff, I don't have any more this problem but I need to understand  :on my very first instruments, I always could feel all the braces over the top at time the instruments were stringed for about a month. too much glue? (titeb..) too much pressure? ( now I use GoBar) too much hygrometric(?) differnece between top and brace wood? (ie:old top wood with frech cut brace wood) any others things? .... all comments are welcome. regards, Cédric hope my english is not too bad 
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: can feel brace over the top |
hummmm??? If you were providing proper even clamping, be it go-bars or cam clamps I doubt that too much glue was ever the issue as the excess would squeeze out. I would look more to top thickness. You did not say steel String of classical. Thin classical tops often have issue with the braces being noticeable but I have never see them go away a month later. |
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| Author: | cedric verglas [ Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: can feel brace over the top |
MichaelP wrote: ...I would look more to top thickness. You did not say steel String of classical. Thin classical tops often have issue with the braces being noticeable but I have never see them go away a month later... both steel and classical, tops were about 2.8mm for CL and 3.2mm for SS with Cedar or Spruce. It was looking so bad with gloss finish  My thought is: my spruce and cedar top and brace were cut from a billet. I use the wood 1&1/2 year after.so the 4mm thick spruce dry quicker than the 14mm thick braces. know what I meen? Now, my woods are all 5 years old at least and I use the same craft style (with more skill) and same glue, so................ chears, Cédric |
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| Author: | cmacksam [ Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: can feel brace over the top |
Cedric, Your tops were at a good thickness. As you mentioned, it could be that your wood was not quite dry enough. Was the wood green (fresh) when you first got it? If it was, then that probably explains why wood from the same billet doesn't give you the same problem after another 3 years of drying. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: can feel brace over the top |
Cedric; The telescoping (seeing their position on the outside of the top)of braces on a guitar is NOT always a bad thing. Especially on classicals. It means your top is loaded with torque from the strings and most of the time these guitars will sound great compared to tops with none ! How did they sound? Have you had any structural problems? If not I would not worry to much unless your trying to sell them and the players get scared because of it. mike ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Marc [ Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: can feel brace over the top |
Cedric, I agree with mike. I asked a similar question a while back http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=12745, read down to Rick Turner's and Shawn's remarks. I've had no problems, |
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| Author: | cedric verglas [ Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: can feel brace over the top |
Thanks for comments guys, Mike Collins wrote: ....It means your top is loaded with torque from the strings and most of the time these guitars will sound great compared to tops with none ! How did they sound? Have you had any structural problems? .... they REALLY SOUND! In fact, they were my best sounding instruments ( especialy a classical which is always amazing ) But, It looks like they have structural problems (in fact they are very stable). I am now looking for the same kind of sound without this esthetic probleme, and just want to understand the process, why those braces are apparents and why it makes instruments sound better. chears, Cédric |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: can feel brace over the top |
Cedric; My best classicals & "Flamencos" always have some ! It means the top is loaded and ready! keep making them the same way! players will love your guitars if they are open (sound great) right away-BUT it will comes with a cost- the top may not support string torque for many years without failure! Only one question! how bad did they show ? Is your bridge saddle very tall (how far are the strings at the saddle from the top of the guitar) 10mm is a good measurement ! 8mm for Flamencos-up to 12mm for classicals! This height makes a big difference in the amount of torque being applied to the top ! If this height is 13mm or more than the tension of the strings (torque) could be pulling the top up so much that the braces show through the top (for nylon strung guitars! ) They are trying to hold the top in place-but the area between the braces is lifting!! That's why you see the bracing! The steel string top must be a bit pulled also by the strings ! But a little show is O.K. ! Also bridge design is important ! Is yours very lite in weight?And (or) is it strong enough to deal with the string pull? It all adds up to a working top! Mike |
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