Official Luthiers Forum!

I bet this has happened to some of y'all.You build your first and someone asks upon seeing it..."How much do you want for it?"or "How much to build me one?"That's a good feeling but it does create a bit of a problem...How much is it really worth?
Let me say firstly that I have a long way to go before I market my guitars.I am NOT going to sell something sub par,but it brings up the question.When is one good enough to sell?How much should one sell a guitar for?How many flaws should I point out...i see so many!I can add up my time and money spent on material in the project but that doesn't account for experience or the lack of it .Peer review seems to be a good way to start?Any thoughts on this possibly taboo subject?
peace and respect
big John

The only way you'll get better is if you build a lot of guitars. The only way you'll build a lot of guitars is if you sell a lot of guitars. The only way you'll sell a lot of guitars is by being willing to negotiate...and being able to sell pieces that although not perfect, are playable. I would never sell a guitar that was unplayable unless it was advertised as such...but I have sold guitars that were not cosmetically perfect. It probably is not a bad idea to be honest with the buyers about how long you have been building and even to discuss the limitations of the instrument with them. There are plenty of folks out there who don't have 4000 to spend and would love to have something handmade.

Just my .02, hope it helps!

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

John;
That's a tough one !

Never point out what you would call a flaw !
If there is a structural flaw do NOT sell the guitar!!!
Fix it!

If your guitars -look good-sound good-and play great they can sell themselves!!!!
Price-How much would you pay for a guitar just like the one you made?? -be honest!!!
This is a good starting place!

Do NOT give them away!!!
(depending who she is)

I see many new makers selling at very low prices!!
Low is less than $2000.

The money to buy woods,tools, and energy today is staggering!!!!
Plus your time !

But if your happy to sell one for say $2000. then do it!
You can raise your prices with your experience !

This probably did not help ya!!!!!!

Mike

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Mike Collins

It's tough to say. I guess it depends on whether or not this is a commercial venture for you. Obviously if this is just a hobby or purely an artistic venture, you have a lot more room to be flexible in regard to price than you would if this was your primary source of income. Since you obviously don't want to be losing money, the cost of the raw materials is a given. But beyond that, you're going to have to decide how much you feel your time and energy is worth and how much value you feel the completed product holds.

I'm not going to go on to argue ethics, but just keep in mind that if this is a business venture, honesty doesn't always have a place in a business environment. This is not to say that you should blatantly lie to a customer, but simply put, giving your customers chapter and verse about all of the things you think are wrong about the guitar isn't going to compel them to purchase it. Think like a salesman. Promote everything good about the guitar and if they happen to find a flaw or two, then you can bargain somewhat, but don't give them ammunition to try to haggle down the price if they can't find it themselves.

All this being said, I do believe that we should all be trying to put out the best quality products that we can, but at the same time sometimes we have to be realistic (if the situation calls for it).

I agree completely. I think builders building for others have a responsibility to understand the culture of guitars before trying to become a part of it, and also to find a positive way to let others know that they haven't been going for very long but still make an instrument worth trying.

I'm in much the same boat. The day I strung up my #1 I carried it to a local pickin' and immediately had a couple of requests for commissions. I politely turned them down, explaining that this was something I was serious about pursuing and I didn't want my early works floating around with my name on it until I felt I had my chops down somewhat. Every person I've turned down since then (and there have been quite a few) fully respected my position, and I they seemed to think all the more of me because of it. Several asked me for a ballpark price quote when I got ready to build for commission. When I gave them a price, not a one batted their eye. As a result, I now have several potential clients when I get ready.

Having said that, however, I'm thinking about takng on a commission for an old high school friend I've been reaquainted with. She plays weekly across the state and has just released a CD. I first told her no, but finally told her I would, explaining very well what build experience I had. Being a friend, I gave her a base price of $1200 for a basic sitka/EIRW or mahogany dread or OM that wouldn't require me tooling up any different. Understanding, of course, that this price was not to be disclosed as I wouldn't build any more that cheap and that extras would raise the price. She is perfectly cool with that (and should be, $1200 is dirt cheap, I think!)

Hopefully I'm not making a mistake here! This guitar will likely be seen by new potential clients every weekend, so I'm admittedly a little nervous about it. At the time I start on hers, I will only have three complete builds (maybe four) under my belt.

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Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com

I had the same thing happen to me. I took my guitar to work because so many people were kept up to date on my progress and wanted to see it when it was finished. Then a few people asked if I would make them one and what it would cost. So far I’ve told every one of them that I would like to first build a few for myself and make sure I’m getting the hang of it and can be confident that I’ll be selling them a good guitar. And once I’m there, we can talk.

So Far I’ve only built 1 and ½, so it’s a slow process (at least for me). My #3 will be a different size than #1 & #2 and then my #4 will probably be the same as #3 but will be the first one that I give away (to my girlfriend). After that I have a few trades in order. My cousin would like a guitar and I would like a new BBQ pit so I’ll probably be trading #5 or #6 to him assuming he’s still offering. My point is that my first several will either be mine, given away as gifts or traded for a project that someone else built by hand. During this time, I hope to hone my skills and become more and more confident that I can build a nice guitar that will last someone a lifetime. After that, I’ll get back to the co-workers and probably work out a deal of something like Cost of Materials Plus $200 or $300 for my time. Then hopefully several of those down the road, I could look at selling them for what I feel they’re worth (if they are worth anything) I wouldn’t give away, trade, or sell a guitar for just cost of materials to anyone but close friends or family.

What I would be more interested in is what kind of warranties (if any) would you offer to these people that you sell a reduced price guitar to? I would think it would fall under a completely different warranty than what you would offer once you get on your feet and start selling a $2000 + guitar. Regardless, I think you would also want to make that known up front so that you don’t have any grey areas later on down the road.

Best of luck.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I don't quote prices on commissions. If someone asks me about building and instrument, quote the price I would be willing to sell the instrument that they have in their hands. If they say "sold", I'll sell it to them. If they say that the want me to build them a guitar for the price quoted, I use that as a starting point either adding or removing costs as they ask for or eliminate features.

Usually, when someone asks me for a price on the guitar in front of them I tell them what I think might be a fair price. Sometimes, you can tell that the person is just curious as to how much it costs and really isn't likely to buy the guitar. When that happens I adjust the price up or down depending on my mood. I then note the reaction. You can really tell if you are too high or too low that way. It doesn't take too many inquiries to zero in on the fair price.

I have a Celtic style mandolin that I make that I have done this to. I've suggested everything from $800 to $2000. It's clear from the reactions that the instruments should sell for about $1100 - $1200. I don't do bling so that is probably a fair price.

By the way, flat top mandolins have a very weird cost structure. I can get two and sometimes three sets out of one guitar set of back/sides. I can get two tops from a guitar top but many of the wood dealers will sell me a AAA top that is only 15 inches long and 6-1/2 inches wide for about $8. I guess that otherwise, they go into the wood stove. The labor, however, isn't much different from a guitar. They both have basically the same number of steps and take about the same amount of time to build. No one, it seems, is willing to pay guitar prices for one however.

John,

You'll know when you are ready to sell. It differs for different people, I think. First, make sure you are making a guitar that sounds good. Of course, this can be subjective when you get down to the little nuances, but your guitar should generally sound good. Make one, pass it around to some good players, and ask for their honest opinion. And don't always listen to what they say....watch them. I know this sounds kind of wierd. But, saying that, if someone picks up your guitar, whacks on it for 2 or 3 minutes, and hands it back, saying they like it, they are probably not too impressed, even though they say they like it. But if they actually do like the guitar, they won't want to put it down. They more than likely will grab ahold of the thing and keep on playing....they may even say something like "nice box", go to put it in the case, and then start playing it again, in my experience. An hour later, they give it back. It's pretty awesome for someone to want to put down their guitar, and take yours out on the stage! Sound is #1.

After that, you really need to concentrate on fit and finish. Stick with the basics first, and then build up to more elaborate things. My weakest point was finish to begin with. And I'm still working on getting a 100% pore fill! I keep trying to get it right, and one day I will. I lucked out with the sound, I guess, and got it pretty right according to people the first time around, so I have been concentrating on finish.

When I ask someone's opinion about one of my guitars, I tell them to please be brutally honest, because if they aren't, I can't improve them; I want and welcome constructive criticism! Advice from an accomplished builder is also a wonderful thing.

I also realize that no guitar I have made is perfect, nor will it be. That is one disadvantage of being the builder...you know each and every little flaw in each build. I tell people who want a guitar that, up front. They know that each one will have some "character". I'm not talking about structurally, just something cosmetic...I would never sell a guitar that has any issues with structure or playability. Don't point out any flaws, though. It's no point in showing someone something they may never notice anyhow.

With that said, my prices are currently a little low (too low, I'm sure). Always keep in mind that it is a lot easier to go up in price later on than it is to go down in price. Right now, my line of thinking is that I want to build guitars for the "working man", and I keep my prices kind of low so they can be afforded. I am going up, though. I figure that I am ready, and I have also added some nice things as "standard" compared to when I was only charging $1800 for a herringbone dread.

I am also not doing this for a living, although I wish I could. I have enough builds lined up to keep me busy on my days off from my regular job. That is another reason I don't charge more (I don't do it for a living).

hope this helps

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Brad Tucker

In my experience..13 years building roughly 2 to 3 instruments a year...I am just now confident enough in my abilites to put one of my guitars on the same shelf as a Martin or Taylor or any other guitar you would find in any decent guitar shop. My curve has probably been slower than most luthiers, but it is my curve. Most of my guitars have gone to freinds and family...but there have been a couple that have been commissioned and gone to very happy homes. The pricing is still a struggle. I think Mike Collins gives great advice when he askes, "what would you pay for this guitar"? Quite frankly, I coulldn' afford my own guitars...which is why I started building them in the firs place There have been some very constructive issues brought up here....honesty....salesmanship.
Just remeber one thing when it comes to taking a commission...it is not a sale until you have the cash...I would suggest that you do not pick up a chisel on a commission until a reasonable down payment has been agreed to, and you have it deposited in the bank.
But if you're building just for the sake of building, and you gotta move some wood so you can make room for more, don't give them away but do what you gotta do to sell them. There has been much discussion of devaluing the work of other luthiers by pricing your work lower....that being said, I have seen some guys ask outrageous amounts for very shoddy work. Like anything else in the free market...the market itself will tell you what your work is worth...if nobody buys it at $3000, then it's not worth 3k...if they buy it at $2000 tweak your price to $2500 and see what happends.

Thanks for letting me ramble.
David Gilmore

Interesting thread. I've been struggling with the pricing too. I've only made one guitar so far, but already have several commissions from people who are obviously mainly interested in getting hold of my low serial numbered instruments. I decided that I would price them about the same as they could buy a similar instrument from established custom builders. My thinking process was a) they seem to be more interested in collecting (hence, the value of the instrument) than playing and b) I didn't want to devalue the work of the established builders. So far, not one of them has batted an eye when I told them the price ($2800+).

Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

I do find the point about potentially devaluing the work of other luthiers interesting. I hadn't thought of that before... But I would wonder whether hobby luthiers that sell for low are really hitting the same customer base as the higher end luthiers... Frankly, I couldn't afford a guitar that's $3000+ so buying from someone selling one for $1500 doesn't hurt the other guy since I wouldn't have bought his guitar in the first place... or so I would think. What do you guys think? =/

personaly i think its good to give your first few away at quite a cheap price $1500 ish,
the rest of the payment will be the reward you got from building the guitar and the reward you get from someone playing it reglary and getting out there for others to play.

it takes a whale to devolpe your own style and this should really be refelected in the price.

build them for you freinds and family at meteriel cost and get the hang of building the type of guitar that someone really wants.
That way when you take on a serious commision you can be confident in offering the client a quality handmade guitar that will treasure for ever.

Joel.

I've built 1 commission so far, and it was for a friend who wanted a Ukulele. I had never built one, but had access to the plans from an original Martin 5K from 1929. It was more of an experiment, and I told him if it doesn't turn out good, he can't have it. I took no money up front, and also told him if it breaks, he's on his own. He was okay with it. I only charged him $300 for it which was basically the cost of parts. It turned out great, and after 2 years, he is still very happy with it. But I will never do that again. I showed it at a guitar show and someone wanted me to build them one. I told him I would do it, but for $1200 min. That ended that conversation real quick. I'm also building a guitar for another friend, and he already paid me up front for the parts, and there is no warranty on this guitar. But I don't plan to build anymore for anyone else. I hate having this hang over my head. I'd rather just build for myself. It is much more fun!

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

I am sorry, but that is just wrong - luthiers don't "compete" nose to nose. When your sole output per year is 12 - 20 units you have no serious "competition"... market demand will always outpace supply. You just have to find it.

Sure you might go to a show and see a guy buy another when he just looked at yours, but hang tough... someone will come along that has to have yours.

Just do good work before you start selling it.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

These threads have tended to get somewhat emotional from time to time when they surface. And notably they don't surface all that often because many of us understand from past experiences that disagreements often occur when we discuss this.

My feelings are this:

Building guitars that have great tone, playability, are constructed with best practices, and will provide real value for many years to come is NOT easy......... Although all or many of us have had some successful guitars the more you build, at least in my impression, the longer the list of things that your could improve upon becomes...... It is as if as we learn more we also learn more things to consider that we had not considered prior and it all gets much more complicated but not so very complicated that a high level of focus, openness to learning, and an unwavering obsession with producing a quality product is still very possible.

Now let's introduce the idea of offering something that has what I call an "unfair competitive advantage." Many pro builders specialize in certain value-adds. When I think of Mike Doolin I think of innovation, when I think of Howard Klepper I see an incredible artist who has combined this artistry with his master Lutherie skills and when I think of Kim Walker I think of a master of vintage tone and so on and so forth. In order to be successful in the market place not only do you need to produce a guitar that appeals to a prospective customer you also have to be able to produce a guitar that will appeal to various clients for specific reasons. And always the quality HAS to be there. Produce and sell a sub-standard guitar before you are ready to an Internet savvy disgruntled customer and your business may be ruined before you every got started not to mention that you may have also hurt the custom guitar market in general........

When Rick jumped up and down and waved his arms (an expression of speech meant with respect here) about how many of us are simply producing GLOs (guitar like objects) because we have not done the due diligence to learn to produce guitars that have excellent playability I took note. Even though I did not like the delivery of the message the message was in fact of the utmost importance and we all owe Rick a debt of gratitude for sharing this with us.

The biggest mistake that a new builder can make is to go to market to early. And we have seen this many times prior on the forum often characterized by requests/posts by these builders asking us how to repair or handle repair situations to new and sold guitars that in all fairness should have never even needed to happen. What I mean is the guitars that were sold to customers should not have failed or had the problems that we hear about here...... Going to market to soon again........

As a new builder your work will be invariably appreciated by some and some will want you to build one for them. So what to do? Here are my thoughts on the this topic and I know that it will rub many the wrong way but just as we are all individuals with very different ways of handling situations there is no set formula that will fit all. Some us us will be capable of producing very fine instruments early on, although I believe this to be the exception, while others of us will have to produce many instruments learning as we will along the way until at some point your wares are worthy of standing against the competition and holding their own.

1) Go to the shows and organizational meetings such as GAL, ASIA, HGF and closely check out what is being offered, by who, and what the pricing is. Ask your self as honestly as possible how what you produce stacks up to the competition. If your guitars are not on a par with the medium offering at these shows go home and get busy and improve your chops.

2) Get beta instruments out there - give them to worthy players and friends or both. Expect only one thing in return - honest feed back and try to select people who will play often as well providing you with feed back for a well played guitar.

3) If you must sell early sell to friends and family, again seeking honest feed back but also considering the idea that if you do not respect the market for custom guitars by selling to strangers at a reduced price you have just contributed to lowering the possible price that your instruments will earn when they are truly worthy and competitive.

4) Realize that we are blessed to have some of he finest builders on the planet contributing here on the OLF. They selflessly help us all out sharing in a single post things that often took them a lifetime to learn. We owe them a debt of gratitude and one of the ways to respect these true Luthiers is to not degrade their market by offering guitars at artificially low prices because you are in the learning phase. If you must offer guitars on the cheap again consider only doing so with friends and family. If you have a really bad guitar to sell consider selling it to your ex.....

5) Listen to Rick and Mario when they share with us. Not only do they talk the talk they also walk the walk and have been there and now have the thousand yard stare...... Your guitars must at the end of the day be more then pretty, well finished instruments with excellent fit and finish. They MUST play very well and sound excellent. After all - if you can remember nothing else remember that all that we do is for the players - again thanks to Rick for this very valid thought.

6) This is more my own personal credo then anything else but my recently deceased father used to tell me to do one thing well instead of a bunch of things ........ crappy although crappy was not his choice of word..... And he was right. When I apply this to my own guitar building I believe that at least for me it is better to go for tone and playability then to go for innovation, at least for now. So I endeavor to try to understand the guitar in it's simplest form and how it works and how it does not work before I will consider getting innovative. I look at a Martin and I see a very minimalistic guitar with few parts, simple construction, and a general design that not only works but has set the standard that all others are judged by at least in terms of the mass buying public.

7) Learn to do excellent set-ups. Make your guitars play all over the neck like butter and still sound great.

8) Lastly - again many of the pros have spent a life time studying to build incredible guitars. How do you think that they feel when they go to a show and see someone who has built very few guitars selling guitars with numerous obvious flaws and for top dollar? How do you think that they feel when they consider that a purchaser of one of these guitars will likely have a bad experience and probably will be left with a bad taste in their mouths for any custom guitar in the future?

Be responsible, don't rush, if you have the talent and offer competitive advantages incuding simply a solid, well playing good sounding guitar success will find you in time. No one ever got rich building guitars and the few that have are so very much the exceptions that they deserve the utmost respect from us all.

These are my thoughts on the matter - peace and happy learning and building to everyone.

+15.5 thousand, Hesh.

I don’t usually post on these kinds of topics but I do have strong feelings in this particular area. Basically I agree with Hesh.
This article by William Cumpiano sums it up pretty well-

http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/A ... edagog.htm

Build for yourself, family and friends at first. Charge only for the cost of materials if you do charge. As you get better get your stuff in the hands of good retailers, repair people, and professional players that will give you honest feedback. After a few years it’ll be obvious if you are on the right track or not. Then you can think about starting to jack up the price.


Terry

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I just traded #6 for two cases of good red wine. Major SCORE!................. Mikey

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The Biggest Little City, Nevada
www.hammondguitars.com
I love building guitars!

...I asked one of "those" questions . At first I was sorry I asked...But guess what guys...I have seen nothing but intelligent ,classy remarks on a tough subject. I really appreciate you guys talking on this one. This topic can really help both sides...the new builder and the pro.I was also unaware of any unpleasantnesses that might have happened on this forum because of the topic....so once again...my bad .
Let me say that I have no intentions of selling my first(really just a scrap test guitar) to anyone.It is a mix of different ideas and may or may not be structurally sound.It was just a prototype.That one will be played by myself or hide under the bed .Having said that I do know I will build more and I feel that they will get better and better,so at some point,this issue has to be dealt with.I don't have the money for the next build....I could pay for these builds with guitars once I start to sell.I realize few people get rich off building....I am looking for a different kind of "rich".The kind I see displayed on this forum...the respect and just plain caring for our fellow man.The "rich" you get when you see someone enjoy something you made.
So...rambling aside ... I learned a lot from this thread.I love the idea of trading art for other art. That works for every one. .I also like the idea of giving the first few away.My big concern is being able to watch these guitars get older....I want to check them out as often as possible so I know what is going on. Another idea I had was donating them to school programs.They would certainty get used(abused) in that environment .What a great way to test a guitar and help a kid.....I call that a win win situation.
Hesh...My friend I reread your post 4 times because I wanted to let that knowledge sink in. If there are any other newbs reading this I suggest you do the same. It really seems to illustrate in an intelligent way the concerns that I had when I posted this question.I will quote just a bit......

Be responsible, don't rush, if you have the talent and offer competitive advantages incuding simply a solid, well playing good sounding guitar success will find you in time. No one ever got rich building guitars and the few that have are so very much the exceptions that they deserve the utmost respect from us all.

I also plan on following up with the other great suggestions...like learning GOOD set-ups...and getting these guitars in the hands of players and repair guys.Get the real scoop....not just the glory friends give when they want to be kind...that can create a false sense of worth. I also plan on learning more about the "culture" as James put it by making an effort to attend some local meetings and what not.Learning to make a good sounding guitar then moving on to finish work and other more advanced stuff.
Once again guys....pat yourselves on the back ....this forum is a rare gem ...a place were peace and respect run rampant...seems like a good place for me to be .
peace and respect from the newbs to the pros
big John

The question is what you would sell your first or a repeat of your first instrument for, taking in consideration your known proficiency limitations.

That is a simple question to answer. You don’t. you are not ready to sell your work period. However there is a compromise possibly suitable to both you and the perspective client.

First you tell the prospective client, friend, acquaintance that you are not at a proficiency level yet to neither sell commission work nor warrantee your work. If that is understood and exceptable you can in good faith offer to build at cost of material and consumables as a returned favor.

How is this returned favor you ask? well here is the scoop. The “client” gets the guitar and you get to build your next project at no material or consumables cost .

I know you are saying to your self, “I am loosing my labor”. Well!!!! No you are not. What would be happening is you are having someone finance the materials and consumables of your next lesson. In return they get the fruit of that lesson. With the understanding that this is an instrument built by a student craftsman. you gain experiance at low cost to you they get the instrument. they become a benifactor.

Now as your skill levels and experience improve with time and builds, keep this same philosophy but start to add labor into the equation a bit at a time.

After all for those of use that love this trade/craft, that is what every client doses. They finance our next expedition of the journey toward mastery of this craft. If you ever start looking solely as if you are providing a service to the client and loose fact that the client is providing and equal or greater share in the discovery of you craft. Then you loose passion.

I sold my first 10 guitars or so at cost plus $200. Keep in mind that I took my 10th guitar up to Dream Guitars for an evaluation and they loved the sound and thought the fit and finish were very good. And I dedicated years of my life to learning lutherie before I reached that point.

I also asked folks who bought my "prototype" guitars not to be vocal about my work on any forums and to keep their comments relegated to me alone since I had plans to do this as a business. And when I first started selling my instruments for a profit, I made sure that the quality of my work was at the highest level in regards to construction (fretwork, playability, fit, and finish). If a guitar is not VERY close to perfect, it will never leave my shop and I have spent a tremendous amount of time figuring out what methods allow me to work efficiently and effectively. You build your reputation based on the quality of you guitars. DO NOT enter the market until you can put your guitars against the work of well-known and highly regarded builders or it will come back to bite you. There are too many very good builders out there right now that you simply will not be able to compete unless your guitars are excellent.

When/if you start your business - then you want to hit the ground running and be able to generate hype and excitement about the quality of your guitars. If you just want this to remain a hobby or fun activity - then I say sell at your cost plus $200 to $800 depending on the quality of your work.

This is just my opinion (so take with a grain of salt) but this mindset has worked well for me.

All the best,
Simon

You know, I like the sound of the "cost plus" idea. As I said, I was extremely hesitant to allow my work out into the public, anyway. The main jist of the ideas here are what drove my original plan - to get a few guitars in the hands of friends and aquaintances, etc, that would be absolutely honest in their feedback. With the $1200 quote, I was at least able to see if my friend was serious (she was). She confessed it would take a while to save up the money, so by that point I can re-evaluate the asking price based on my production standard at that time. (Hopefully, I could have a few guitars under my belt by then).

Yep, building at cost or cost plus $200 may be the ticket here and a win-win for everybody. Thanks for starting this thread Big John!

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Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com

I appologize in advance if this response gets lengthy, but I have a view that I need to say.

My first few guitars were either given away, or burned. Depending on the flaws that I knew they had. With each one I built my skills of fit and finish and at the same time I was working on better sound.

One of the questions that I have heard asked and one I frequently get asked is "How long have you been building guitars?"... I try to be honest with them and tell them just a few years. Here is what they dont understand and a lot of others dont understand:

When I build guitars, it is ALL I do! 7 days a week, I am in the shop for at least a couple of hours a day up to as much as 20 hours a day. One of the posters above said that they have been building for 13 years and have built 6 guitars. I built 6 guitars in the first 3 months of THIS year. Who has the most experience? The one building 6 guitars over 13 years or the one building 6 guitars in 3 months (plus a BUNCH more guitars in the last couple of years)? My point is that time is not a guage of quality, experience, or value.

When I went to Miami, my first show, I was talking to other luthiers who were looking over my guitars, playing them, and some offered well respected evaluations and tips. I truely appreciate the tips I recieved and have worked hard to improve on those issues. When I started out by pointing out what I considered flaws, Each and every one of them stopped me in mid sentence. They all told me that you will find a flaw in most every guitar at the show. Most are minor cosmetic flaws, some are major structural flaws. Their advice was to leave it up to the customer to find the cosmetic flaws and dont bring a guitar that has structural flaws. EXCELLENT ADVICE!

I totally agree with the advice Hesh provided above.....100%. As far as pricing..... I know what my costs are to produce that guitar amd I also know how much time and effort went into it. I try to price it out to be a fair price for the buyer and at the same time I try to make enough to keep my doors open and continue building. As it turns out, those prices are within reason from what I saw other builders offering guitars at the show.

In the mean time, I am continuing to improve on the fit and finish and doing my best to eliminate the cosmetic issues that most people dont even know exist. The advice to NOT give your guitars away is good advice. My advice is to go to a show, even if it is a mini-vacation of sorts, and price out guitars that are somewhat equal in value (be honest) to what your guitars are. That will give you a good price to start your negotiating on the price of YOUR guitars.

Thanks for reading!
Ken

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Reguards,

Ken H

It seems to me that most answers given were more in terms of how to price if you are just starting actually present your work to the general buying public while at an early stage in your building experience. I took the question to be more of what if a friend or acquaintance asked to buy a first or second build or to build one for them with just one or two builds under your belt. To me these are two vastly different scenarios.

My point is that at the point in time defined by the original question, charging for your skill is presumptuous at best. But if the friend or acquaintance is willing to finance the build then Ok and take the experience gained during this second or third build as your payment.

I gave away 5 or 6 then built 4 or 5 at material and consumable cost only. No I did not make any money for those builds, but I built four or five guitars for free. The experience I gained was invaluable. And I would have built that many more and paid for material and consumables my self anyway so it worked out fine. I built for free. To me it was well worth it.