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| Decal from best-decals http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18340 |
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| Author: | vandenboom [ Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Decal from best-decals |
I am trying a decal on the headstock for the first time. At first, I tried some I made myself with an inkjet on special transparency, but could never get all of the moisture out from under the decal - so gave up. I bought some decals from best-decals.com - they are a vinyl product. Their product doco says the decal is .0025" thick. However, after putting it on and measuring the difference in thickness of the headstock in the areas with/without the decal with a vernier caliper, it seems closer to .007" I figure I will need to keep measuring the thickness of the nitro build so that I don't level too soon and ruin the decal. Has anyone out there used the best-decals product, or have any other suggestions? Frank |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
Burying decals takes about 12 coats of lacquer. Some spray 12 coats over a few days and then sand. I usually do 1 light coat at first. An hour later I do a medium coat. Then an hour later...and every hour after that, I spary a fairly wet coat. About every 4 coats, I wet sand just the area with the decal using a block. Don't go all the way down to the decal. Just knock the top coat and shine off and then proceed. The final coat you will need to leave gas out for quite some time. It will show the line of the decal, but it will sand out. Let the nitro shrink for several weeks before sanding it to its final shine. I have pictures somewhere of the final look under the nitro, but basically the method mentioned above, is what I have done for years. PS: Some folks also spray a light coat of nitro on decal before cutting and applying it. It makes it a little stiffer to work with and has a "primer" coat that helps with your first coat. Joe |
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| Author: | vandenboom [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
Joe - thank you for that - very helpful - makes sense now, but I really wasn't sure how to proceed. Frank |
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| Author: | RaymundH [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
Frank, I've used them twice now and they have delivered very well on both occasions. I merely apply to bare wood, Z-poxy, and shoot finish. (10 coat schedule) I then wait a few weeks sand and buff out with the rest of the guitar. My first is over a year now and still looks great! Ray PM me if you need a pic of the installed decal. |
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| Author: | vandenboom [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
I am not having a good run with this decal. I did not take any measurements of thickness before I started, so could not monitor the amount of build. I applied 12 coats, but sanded through it before it managed to level, so had to scrape off and start again. This time I have measured the thickness of the headstock at a number of spots in the decal area and have confirmed that the decal, after being applied is .007". I read in the "Finishing Step by Step" book from stewmac that build thicknesses with nitro are around .006" to .008", so clearly I need to go even a bit thicker than this to get over the decal. I have not measured the thickness of my build on the previous 3 guitars. How much can I go over .008" on a headstock? How much would you suggest I go above the decal to be safe. Any other suggestions? btw, I questioned best-decals on why the decal was more than 3 times the thickness stated on their web site. Their response was incredibly defensive, blaming their vinyl manufacturer and the adhesive. i suggested they acknowledge this possible variation on their web site but they didn't like that and, instead commented on my obvious inexperience - which of course was absolutely correct. Just a very surprising response. So be aware of the real thickness if you buy their product, which btw looks great. |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
Not sure why you had problems. Lets start again: 1)Apply the decal and get the water out from under it (if it is a water slide). 2)Appy a thin "dust" coat of Lacquer and let dry 1 hour 3)Apply a medium coat of Lacquer and let dry 1 hour 4) Apply a fairly heavy (wet) coat of lacquer and let dry 2 hours or so. 5) Repeat this heavy coat 2 more times. 6) Take a piece of 400-600 grit wet/dry paper and a block and sand only the top egde of the decal. Just make it dull then stop. (the finish is thin so it only takes a moment to do this step). Don't go to far, just make it dull. 7) repeat steps 2-6 a few more times. Make sure you do step 2 each time you have sanded between coats. 8) after you have done this process 3 or 4 times, spray the remain coats heavy and let dry a week or so. 9) It is very important that you use block when sanding this headstock. Use a small block (I like a pink-pearl eraser) for the first part. Concentrate over the decal area first. Eventually the logo will be low enough that you will see your sanding marks getting wider on the headstock. Switch to a wider block and continue. Only go as deep as it takes to no longer see/feel the lines. You may also want to switcht to 800 grit as you get closer to leveling the decal. This way you won't have deep sanding marks you will still have to remove once your level. So maybe as the line starts to fade, switch to the next higher grit you have. 10) Quickly work thru the different grits of paper. Only sand long enought to remove the scratches from the previous grit. Joe |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
The logo and script on the guitar to the left are both decals (waterslide) and the gold top script was a replacement decal from Gibson. All were done using the method mentioned above.   Here is what the gold top headstock looked like before I applied the "Les Paul Model" script. Fiberboard:  Painted black: 
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| Author: | vandenboom [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
Thanks Joe for the detail. So is a build thickness of .008"+ on a headstock ok? |
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| Author: | KenH [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
WOW Joe! I play a LP in church, and would love to play that little gold top!! As far as the thickness is concerned, I dont see a problem with .008 on a headstock. resonance isnt a big issue in that area anyway. Joe has done a waterslide decal for one of my guitars, and did a fantastic job with it. It literally "floats" in the finish. |
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| Author: | vandenboom [ Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
JRE Productions wrote: 1)Apply the decal and get the water out from under it (if it is a water slide). Joe Joe - another question about a water slide decal. How do you get all of the moisture out? I am using a vinyl decal in this case, but experimented with the water slide before. I left it to dry for a couple of days, but half of it retained a misty appearance which I presumed was trapped water. Frank |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decal from best-decals |
I'm interested in this, too. |
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