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one of THOSE moments
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Author:  KenH [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  one of THOSE moments
I just got back from a well needed 3 day cruise and was feeling good this morning. Went out to the shop to buff out a guitar.

This is an unusual guitar... the Osage Orange guitar that I built a while back. I had really took a vacation when I put the finish on that guitar, for a couple of different reasons. The first reason is that I was going to keep it for myself and didnt care what it looked like. The second reason is that it was an experimental guitar. The finish had some runs, gnats, and other blemishes but I didnt care. It was more or less just a beater for me to drag around.

It turns out that somebody came along and played that guitar and insisted on buying it oops_sign

I wouldnt let it out of my shop with that finish on it, so I sanded it all off down to bare wood (a LOT of hand sanding involved) and started over, this time trying out the McFaddens polyester finish. I had it looking pretty good after the second coat, and had sanded it level and was just going to buff it out a little to see what it looked like.......

You guessed it.....that buffing wheel grabbed it out of my hands and did a serious body slam on the concrete floor in the shop. Knocked off a bit of binding and cracked the side, but nothing I couldnt fix. It was just a rotten way to start out a day after a vacation.

I hate finishing guitars!! Who ever decided that guitars need to be shiney needs to be choked pfft

[uncle]
Author:  GregG [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Oh man Ken, I hate when that happens, thankfully only once for me, surprisingly the guitar came away with only a scratched finish....and it hit the concrete hard. Yeah, I hate finishing too, glad to have Joe doing mine now. Good luck with your repair, and respect the ole guitar-slinger!

Cheers,
Greg
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh............no wonder I ain't heard from you.

I don't even know what to say to that. I know it falls in the 'already been done' category but geeeeshhhhhhhh.
Author:  Matthew Luce [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
I'd buy it too, just because it is osage orange! It proves the guy's smart. He prefere's tone over look if he was willing it buy it with a bad finish. pizza pizza pizza pizza
Author:  Goobie [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Oh man.. Some days it don't pay to get outta bed..
Sorry to hear about your misfortunes but at least you have some great motivation to get it fixed and shiny as new (err.. Shiny-er I guess as is the case here haha).

Cheers,
Chad
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
What speed do you run your buffer Ken?
Terry
Author:  Brad T [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
wow7-eyes wow7-eyes wow7-eyes wow7-eyes wow7-eyes gaah

OH MAN! sorry to hear that, Ken.....I bet that made your B***H*L* draw up. Now that you mention it, I thought I heard some yelling....way up here in N GA.

seriously, I sure hate to hear that. Finishing isn't my favorite thing either.
Author:  joe white [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Dang Ken! Hope you can save the guitar. A buffer can grab a guitar in just a split second. I have found that running the buffer faster is safer. Seems that it grabs more the slower you turn. Be careful!
Author:  James Orr [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Ken, I can feel your pain. Today was my first day back from vacation, too. While not nearly as crummy, after a week off, I felt like [xx(] 20 minutes into my boxing class.

The vacations are great. Then there come the aftershocks :)

Crossing my fingers. I'm about to head out to shoot a coat of sealer [:Y:]
Author:  KenH [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
I had been getting Joe to finish my guitars and he does an excellent job. This time around, I am sort of pushed for time and he is swamped, so the timing isnt good for either of us to have 6 boxes sent in for finishing and then getting them back quickly. I can do my own finishing, but it is definitely not my favorite part of building. It was worth every penny to get Joe to do it for me.

Oh well..I got it fixed and sanded out and it will get another coat of polyester tomorrow... maybe this time will go better. There is a real learning curve to spraying polyester after spraying nitro for so many guitars. Luckily, I can sand it off and do it again if needed and it blends in well.

I have been running my buffing wheel at around 1000 rpms, but want to run it faster for the poly. The trouble is, the poly likes the faster buffing speed but the 1/2 hp motor doesnt like to go that fast. Looks like it is time to go with a 1hp motor for the buffer..
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Good tip on the flooring Filippo. My wheel runs at 800 RPM and I always thought faster was more dangerous. Interesting to hear from Joe that it's actually the other way around.
Terry
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Sorry to hear your pain, Ken! Wouldn't a 1 hp motor just throw it harder? :D
Author:  KenH [ Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
WaddyT wrote:
Sorry to hear your pain, Ken! Wouldn't a 1 hp motor just throw it harder? :D


I dont think so Waddy. As Joe Says, it actually doesnt tend to grab as much. That could be because the faster speeds doesnt allow the denim material to spread out as bad, so the bufing wheel is "tighter" ?? I dunno. I do know that I can bog down a 1/2 hp motor easily and it overheats and kicks out frequently. I want something that will stick with me until the job is done.

The Polyester likes a faster buffing speed than nitro (found that out by spending several hours on the phone with the chemist from McFaddens). They are really good about giving you all of the information about their products and helping you get started too. They suggest 1000rpm's as a starting point for the poly finishes, and then go up from there. The 1/2 hp motor just doesnt want to go that hard.

I also have been considering the rubber floor matting too. My back is already in pretty bad shape and I have to have spinal injections every few months to keep the pain level at a tolerable level. Standing there buffing for any length of time can definitely put some pain in your back. I notice that Woodcraft has the foam mats on sale, so I think I'll drive over there and buy a few of them for my work stations. They are cheap and if it helps with the back problems, it will be worth it, not to mention possibly saving a guitar too is a BIG plus.

This brings me to another question about buffing wheels, but I'll start another thread since it may be easier to find for those searching for info on them later.
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Hey Ken, sorry to hear of you're miss-hap. I'm sure it's happened to many pros before you.

Have a look at Jim Olson's shop pages specifically at his buffer. He's got lots of padding around the base, but maybe having an old wrestling mat or two on the floor below might be a good idea. Now, I've never used a buffing wheel so maybe they would just get in the way, but maybe it would help. Just a suggestion.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
WaddyT wrote:
Sorry to hear your pain, Ken! Wouldn't a 1 hp motor just throw it harder? :D


I think Waddy's right...change the pulleys to change the speed...change the HP to change the power.
Author:  Erik Hauri [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Sorry to hear about that Ken....been there & done it.

Next time tell him "I'll build you another one just like it". [:Y:]
Author:  clavin [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Sorry to hear that Ken. Some lessons are harder learned vs. others..
Bet that will never happen again though!!
Craig L
Author:  Bob Garrish [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
As a young guy (who's in his shop 8-16 hours a day) I double and triple recommend putting some sort of rubber matting on your floor in areas you'll be standing. I can feel a huge difference in -my- back after a day of standing on rubber VS concrete.
Author:  Sam Price [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
The rubber matting sounds like a great idea. I was going to tile & grout the concrete floor....
Author:  BruceHerrmann [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
"those" moments seem to make up a good portion of my life! As everyone says, we've all been there.
I had a great classical I was really happy with and in the last of the lacquer application stage, then
it happened. I had it suspended from the peghead for drying and the fastener I was using failed
(actually, the fastener was fine, it was the operator that blew it). Smashed the guitar to bits
when it hit the concrete shop floor. This was 15 years ago, I've not had that happen before
but am much more careful.
I really do enjoy the finishing process but that's mainly since the advent of micro grit sandpaper. I can
take a guitar to 12000 and just do a little buffing with a auto paint variable speed polisher.
I have a large stand-mounted buffer but my heart meds tend to fail me as soon as I get near that thing with a
guitar.
I know of one large American guitar company that had a initiation process that involved a
club you joined when you threw your first guitar across the room when the buffing wheel
caught the guitar.

Bruce
Author:  sharp_custom [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Sorry to hear about your problems Ken. I think we've all bee there. I know of one luthier who was buffing and set the guitar down below the wheel to add more compound. The buffer grabbed the bar of compound and sent it through the soundboard of the guitar they were buffing.

I agree with Joe on this. When I first started out I used a slower buffer speed. I had one too many accidents like this. Since I stepped up the speed to 1325 rpm I haven't had a problem. It's really just about paying attention and a little experience.
Author:  KenH [ Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Thanks for the reminders about the pads. I'm sending the wife off to Woodcraft to get a bunch of them tomorrow. I dont know why I have been procastenating on buying them, but now is as good of a time as any. I'm sure it would have helped prevent the damage to the guitar too! This isnt the first time I have slung a guitar with the buffer, but it has been a long time since it happened. Just one second of not paying attention and a lot of work can go down the drain.

I got the guitar fixed and ready for another coat of Polyester. I think I have finally got the hang of spraying it, so tomorrow I am going to spray a batch of guitars..I got my wife to take a picture today of the current batch I am working on.

Attachment:
100_0864 (Medium).jpg


It is totally different than spraying nitro, but since I have the nitro experience, it helped with the learning curve.
[:Y:]

I still have to get all of these completed and build 3 more guitars and one banjo (a long story on how I got a banjo commission) before October first.... I'm going to be a little busy until then bliss

When I get a little spare time, I have been playing with the new larger CNC mill I bought. This one will run circles around the old one and is large enough to cut necks or one piece electric guitars. I am trying to teach my wife how to run the mill so that we can double team some of the work that is coming in and maybe go for a new business venture too.

Attachment:
100_0860 (Medium).jpg
Author:  Jonas [ Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
i feel your pain, man. While making my second electric on the first day back from Christmas break in my wood tech class i was using a spoke chave for the first time and then BAM, what's that metal looking piece of wood in the center of my neck?! I had to start all over after i ripped the fingerboard and truss rod off.
Author:  michaelt [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
Just curious, what size router bit are you using to cut that neck (dia. and cut length).

MikeT
Author:  KenH [ Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: one of THOSE moments
michaelt wrote:
Just curious, what size router bit are you using to cut that neck (dia. and cut length).

MikeT


it is a 1/2" ball end mill that is 6" long
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