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Table Saws - Recomendations Please
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Author:  Hesh [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Table Saws - Recomendations Please
It's time to purchase a table saw for my guitar building and I wanted to ask the forum for recommendations.

I searched the archives and learned a great deal but..... I still feel as if I would do better asking folks what they think will work best for me. Some things to know about my requirements are as follows:

(1) I have space for a full sized saw but I am open to a contractors saw if the accuracy is decent and of course there is a price advantage. In fact I have never been a fan of tools that take up more space then necessary.

(2) Good dust collection is always high on my list of requirements.

(3) It needs to run on 110V.

(4) Safety should not have been number 4 here because it is very important to me.

(5) Availability locally or in a drivable distance is cool too, I don't really want to pay freight on a table saw and keep in mind I do not have a truck either.....

I checked out, on the Internet, the SawStop's contractor's saw and if I could afford one I would buy one but I just can't swing that kind of price tag.

So my friends what would you recommend for a quality, first-time user-friendly table saw for this guitar builder? And while we are at it what is the blade that Mario turned everyone onto that many people seem to swear by?

Many thanks! :)
Author:  Jon L. Nixon [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hesh-
My Delta Contractors saw has served me well for the last 15 years. Lowes, at least in this area, keeps them in stock, I believe in the $550 range. Nice thing about Delta is that parts are easily available. ( I once replaced the shaft and bearings from a 1960's Delta jointer- they got them to me the same week). Jet, Hitatchi & Ridgid are probably all in the same price and quality range. Have fun shopping......... [:Y:]
Author:  Brad Way [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hesh...I have a Delta Unisaw and am very happy with the tool. I also mounted a router lift in the extension table which is a great space saver and makes for a great router table. The fence system can also be used for the router which is very helpful. When the saw is not in use I cover the top with a large sheet of MDF which makes for a great work bench. Just a few thoughts.

Good luck!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
I have a portable table saw, and it is a Craftsman, similar to the Bosh portable, with the collapsible leg system. It's only OK. The Bosh is probably better. If I had it to do over, I would find one with a steel table vs an aluminum table. The aluminum table eliminates the use of magnetic jigs and feather boards, which would be very convenient. A cast table would be much better. Actually, Craftsman has a Hybrid Cabinet saw that is pretty nice, and got good ratings at one time. All that changes so fast, though, don't know if what was true a few years ago, is still true.
Author:  Sylvan [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
You cannot beat a Unisaw with a Biesemeyer fence. If you do not want to do that get any quality saw and install a Biesemeyer fence on it. You will be happy!
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
I've had the DeWalt 744S for 6 years and it's a great little saw. I made a base for it and it handles all of the tasks required for lutherie with ease. I'd love to upgrade to a Unisaw someday but have put it off because this little guy pretty much does all I need for guitar building
Terry
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Are you sure you don't want to run it at 220v? It's not hard to run a circuit for it, and you will get much better performance and life from the motor. John Osthoff has a really nice Grizzly cabinet saw that was a lot less money for the amount of saw than some of the other brands named here. Ad a Beismeyer fence as Sylvan so wisely suggested, and you will have a darn good saw at a great price.
That said, if I had the cash for a SawStop, I'd get it without blinking.
Author:  Heath Blair [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
hesh, IMHO a tablesaw is priceless. i wont get into the whole tablesaw vs. bandsaw issue, but since you already have a bandsaw it doesnt matter. spend as much money as you can. i dont think you will regret doing so. i personally own four large machines from grizzly (totalling about $4000-5000) and while some might argue that there are better tools out there (there are), i dont believe there are better tools for the price. i just quickly browsed their tablesaw collection and thought this one might serve your needs well.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/2-HP-Hy ... -Saw/G0478

its heavier than a contractor style saw, is capable of 220v operation (adding a 220v line later wouldnt be that difficult to do), but comes pre-wired to 110v, because of the shroud surrounding the blade dust collection is greatly increased, and the price isnt bad considering it is delivered to your door (youll need a couple dudes to help you out unless you have a fork lift handy).

i wouldnt recommend a contractor style saw because dust collection isnt great on an already difficult tool to collect dust from. sounds like a cabinet saw might be out of your price range. the hybrid saw wins in my book. have fun looking and go down and look at some saws if you can.
Author:  Heath Blair [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
taking sylvan and don's recommendations, this is also a great saw. i own the same one with the 52" rip capacity. the shop fox fence is essentially a biesemeyer fence. love mine.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Tabl ... lt/G1023SL
Author:  LanceK [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hesh,
One thing you may want to consider is that we may not always have access to one piece
mahogany blanks, and if you are going to do a scarf joint, it's awfully nice to have a
blade that can cut a 3" tall board in one pass.
My saw cannot, but my dad has a nice Grizzly that can. Some day I hope it will be
living at my house ;)
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
If safety is #1 then there's no question about choice. Accuracy, quality of construction, effective dust control all tie for a very close 2nd place.
http://www.sawstop.com/
-C
Author:  Brock Poling [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Don Williams wrote:
Are you sure you don't want to run it at 220v? It's not hard to run a circuit for it, and you will get much better performance and life from the motor. John Osthoff has a really nice Grizzly cabinet saw that was a lot less money for the amount of saw than some of the other brands named here. Ad a Beismeyer fence as Sylvan so wisely suggested, and you will have a darn good saw at a great price.
That said, if I had the cash for a SawStop, I'd get it without blinking.


I was looking at the Powermatic X66(?) and John O. strongly suggested the Grizzly. I ended up going with that (5hp Right hand Tilt) and it is fantastic.

The ONLY thing I sort of wished I would have done is got the 12" version vs, the 10" so I could cut a scarfed headstock in a custom cross-cut sled.

(of course all of this is 220, but as Don said, it is pretty easy to get a 220 circuit installed)
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
I have a older British Wadkin cabinet saw, which as far as I can tell is the to the Delta Unisaw what the Record planes are to the Stanley equivalents; same same. 3 hp motor, 3 phase, 230V, upgraded with a Biesmeyer fence, it is simply a wonderful tool. I'm sure you can get by with a smaller saw for most guitar making tasks, but if you can afford and have room for a decent cabinet saw, you won't be sorry.

Oh, and the "Mario blades" are the Freud Diablo Diablo 7 1/4" thin kerf ones, I use the 40 tooth type extensively. Thanks for the tip, Mario!
Author:  Bob Hames [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Greetings

First of all I should introduce myself, as this is my first post.
My name is Bob Hames and I live in Canada, just outside the town
of Orangeville, which is 50 miles NW of Toronto. I am 55, recently
took a 2mo. course at the Summit School and I'm in the process of
setting up my basement shop for building acoustics. I've been lurking
around this site for quite awhile, and thought it time to jump in.

I worked for quite awhile in the store fixture industry as a trim sawyer,
running a tablesaw 8-10 hrs a day. These were mostly SCM models, 7.5HP
16" blades. But when I was learning the trade, the saw I cut my teeth on (pardon
the pun) was a Unisaw, as stated by Sylvan above. Very simple, straight forward
design with the most, IMHO, important feature ....mass. At one point when you
read a review of machinery in a mag. suck as Fine Woodworking, one of the
criteria was $/lb.

Although in my current situation I opted for the Bosch fold up model, and believe
me this was a painful decision, given more room & more importantly, more money
I would have searched for a good used 3HP Single Phase 220V Unisaw.

My 2 cents.

Later
Bob the Builder
Author:  rjeffery [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hesh wrote:
It's time to purchase a table saw for my guitar building and I wanted to ask the forum for recommendations...
(4) Safety should not have been number 4 here because it is very important to me.

Hesh,
Safety is in the thing at the top of your neck. I have operated my father's 8 inch Craftsman table saw for more than 40 years. (I am 54 now) It doesn't have a guard or a splitter or a fancy anti-kickback device and I still have all my fingers (and toes)! My advice is to get a cast iron table with an extension table on the right side (if you are right handed) with a Uni-fence. Accurate set up on my Delta contractor's table saw was a pain in the donkey because I had to grind the mounting bolts to get the trunnion to allow the blade to "run" parallel to the miter slot. After that it has given me great joy. Any saw will perform if properly set up. You fingers will remain at the end of your arms If you are ALWAYS mindeful of where they are in relation to the blade.

Push sticks are your friends...
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Okay...I'll try this agian...I finger 'screwed' myself a few minutes ago and am on my second go round trying to reply to this post.

My opinions.....
-more weight is more better....
-the saw blade means as much as the saw
-if you can't set the saw up correctly...expect it to hurt you and mess up your stock
-left tilts are safer than right tilts.
-mobile bases are crucial
-You can build bigger better badder cross cut sleds and other sled types with cabinet saws
-some day you will wish you had an outfeed table....some day

Here is my Grizzly. It is set up to perfection. I run a Woodworker II on it...unless I am cutting stock over about 2.5 inches....then I switch to a 24 tooth hooptie blade. This is the 110V model and I ran a separate circuit in the shop just for this saw. I also put a proprietary twist lock plug on it to keep from plugging it into a standard household 15 amp circuit. It draws a lot on startup. If you buy a Grizzly change the measure tape for the fence right off the bat. The original sucks.

The pics are of the saw, the tape, and the underside of the outfeed table.
Author:  Chris Ide [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
This looks interesting, I will bet the dust collection and accuracy to be top notch as will be the price http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/edi ... stool.aspx I love my festool stuff it has paid for itself many times over. I have a Jet contrators saw and coupled with a forest blade cuts clean and accurate, a little lacking in power, but I only notice that ripping 5/4 or thicker stock. I find that I use my festool plunge saw and guide more and more, it could take that place of a table saw in a pinch, but having both available in my cabinet furniture shop is very convienent
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Many thanks everyone and rest assured that I am still listening very intently to what you all have to say.

Thinking out loud here and having a healthy fear of table saws admittedly partly based on ignorance..... since the Sawstop technology is now available to us why would we not select it? I agree with Chas, Filippo and others that when it comes to safety Sawstop is the choice.

I didn't want to spend a great deal on this saw and have other things to buy but I also believe in doing one thing well instead of a bunch of things...... crappy..... And after watching Sawstop's video again, it was posted here months ago, I freely admit to greatly valuing my hotdog....... Our friend Mitch and his words "mistakes don't grow back" is also on my mind.

So what do you guys think about the Sawstop contractor's saw for a newb like me? Don buddy I have wanted to avoid 220 if I can because I want to be able to rearrange my shop at will. I also like the smaller foot print but recognize that a massive saw has advantages too.

For what we do with guitar making and for a new-to-tablesaws-user would the Sawstop contractor's saw be a good choice.

I am not sure if they are available yet and called both Woodcrafts in my area, Toledo and Canton but they were both closed at 5:00 PM....slackers...... :D The thing only weighs 265 pounds too which makes my life easier in that respect as well.
Author:  billyr [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hi all...
I too have been lurking here for quite sometime. So before I talk saws let me introduce myself. My name is Billy and I live in Atlanta. I have been building for a couple of years and am employed at Highland Woodworking here. This is a great forum and I have learned a lot from everyone who posts here. I was in the cabinet business in Athens GA for several years and was trained on a Unisaw.

That said, when I moved to Atlanta and set up my own shop I needed a table saw but didn't need something quite as heavy duty or industrial as the Unisaw. After lots of research I settled on the hybrid model Woodtek from Woodworkers Supply. I can't say enough good things about this saw. The table is dead flat and setup took only about 2.5 hrs from crate to cutting. Dust collection is good and the Beisemeyer style fence is accurate. The integrated mobile base works well and gives me more space in the shop when I don't need the saw. And all for less than $900 including truck freight! Check it out before you buy anything.

Looking forward to communicating with you guys more in the future,

cheers,

billyr
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Billy and Bob welcome to the OLF! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap]

And thanks for weighing in here!
Author:  gozierdt [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hesh,

I have had both a Unisaw, and the Shop Fox left-tilt cabinet saw. I would never argue with anyone that says
they are top-notch saws. But I recently had to move into a smaller shop, and ended up getting the Rigid 3660
from Home Depot. I think for the price, it's a fabulous saw, with an excellent fence. and a large enough set of
tables to handle anything a luthier is likely to need. Regular price is $549, but they often have sales where it
can be gotten cheaper.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100608588&N=10000003+90401+500744

That said, I'll never argue against safety, so if you choose the Sawstop- which has gotten very good reviews, I'd
think that was a wise choice also- maybe the wisest.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hesh -

Since you are building your shop from scratch, I really would put in a panel with enough space to put in 2 or 3 or more 220 breakers, and go ahead and think in terms of saws that will use that much power. I put a new panel in my garage and have 2 220's so far, one for my dust collector and one for the 2 HP Baldor motor on my 14" Delta bandsaw. (Was THAT ever an improvement bliss bliss bliss !!)

You have the chance to do this right from scratch - 220 is your friend!

Jim
Author:  jhowell [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
Hesh--

This jet saw caught my eye a while back. Its a good size for getting in and out of a basement and has a very nice fence. Jet 708480K JPS-30. Plenty of saw, I think for what we tend to do.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
There are many saws out there. I agree unisaw is very good. I just bought a Steel City cabinet saw. They are a company that is to be making a very good cabinet say.There are different types of saws but the fence is where the money needs to be. The besmier fence is untouchable for accuracy.
I looked at a lot of saws before I bought a steel city. If I had to do it over I would have gotten a Fox , Jet , or Grizzly. My steel city was delivered to me with a non working motor and to be honest the Steel City customer service was pitiful. I have experience with Grizzly and shop fox customer service and they are top notch . I should have gone with them.
If you can find a unisaw on ebay or craigslist , grab one and you will never be sorry.
john hall
blues creek guitars
Author:  Todd Rose [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Table Saws - Recomendations Please
I just wanted to echo what Brad said about how nice it is to have a router lift built into the extension table - in my case, the saw is a Powermatic 66. I am completely happy with the fence (never used a Beisemeyer, so I don't know how similar or different it is), and love being able to use it with the router table as well (not for all routing operations, but for many). As far as safety goes, I've never gotten my fingers close enough to the blade to wish for the SawStop technology, but what I do wish my saw had is a riving knife (which is basically a splitter that tilts with the blade). Otherwise, the saw is great. BTW, with a 10" blade on it I can cut my scarf joints.
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