JJH wrote:
Thanks for the link!
GO BAR DECK IT IS
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| Closing the box http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18550 |
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| Author: | SkyHigh [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Closing the box |
How do you guys close your box? Do you guys use bicycle tires to clamp/put pressure? Go bar deck? Thanks, David |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
David my friend I use my go-bar deck. |
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| Author: | John Hale [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
Here's a good thread and similar photo viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18390 |
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| Author: | SkyHigh [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
JJH wrote: Thanks for the link! GO BAR DECK IT IS
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| Author: | gilmoreguitars [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I use the rope method on a work board This gives even pressure around the box, and the control to add clamping area where you need it by adding more wraps of rope.  David |
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| Author: | JRessler [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
40 Cam Clamps (x $15=$600 - should have used a go bar system) |
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| Author: | Kirt Myers [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
JRessler wrote: 40 Cam Clamps (x $15=$600 - should have used a go bar system) Yeah, but that looks real cool. They told me, "you can never have too many clamps".  I use go-bars. |
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| Author: | JimWomack [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I do it this way. This is the fasted method I've tried. I use hhg for the back and top so every second counts. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
Man some of these methods look rather expensive or complicated or kinky or, or, or...... I am sure that they all work though and this is yet another example that there are 1,000 or more ways to build a guitar. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
Five years ago I did the go bars. The last couple at shop used both go bars and cam clamps. At shop in Maine and now I use press system, and will stay with that. Fast to set the box into spread the glue and screw it down for even and good pressure. 45min to hour out and on to the next one. By way this one was built by John at BluesCreek. Kind of same design as one in Maine but to me easier than that one. |
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| Author: | Brad T [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I do what Ressler does, along with a couple of rubber bands......Hey, if you gottem, you oughta use em since you paid for em, right? 
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I also use my go-bar deck and a chipboard outline to protect the top and or back |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I made clampling cauls that outline the shape of the instrument and are approx 1" wide out of 3/4" plywood. I use pistol grip bar clamps and clamp as needed around the caul until the top/back is closed. About 12-15 clamps seems to work for this method. |
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| Author: | WarrenG [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
Go-bar deck with a plywood caul that has a foam edge: 
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
Well I don't have a picture but this is pretty easy. I took a piece of plastic posterboard and traced the outline of the body on it. At the hardware store I picked up some real dense self adhesive EDPM weather stripping and applied it to the posterboard to the inside of the line. You want the weather stripping to be under the linings and the tail and neck blocks. Lay that on your radius dish weather stripping side up. Place the body in the mold on top of that. Put the other radius dish on top of all that and use about eight clamps to clamp the two dishes together. My dishes are 1 1/2" thick so I don't have to worry about breaking them. Steve |
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| Author: | gozierdt [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I use a bare (no sandpaper) radius dish with the same radius I used to sand the body and braces and glue up the back or top. I put a 1/8" foam piece down first, to help maintain even pressure. The body sits on the bench in the mold, I glue around the kerfing, put the back/top down on the body, put the foam and radius dish on top, then weigh down the stack with iron weights. I've thought of using my go-bar deck, but I'd have to lengthen the side bars 5" or so, and make a spacer box to use when gluing up back and top bracing. |
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| Author: | Rothrock [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
and another way... Attachment: topinstal12.JPG Attachment: readyfortop12.JPG
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| Author: | Michael Jin [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
WarrenG wrote: Go-bar deck with a plywood caul that has a foam edge: This is probably going off on a tangent, but when the bars bend that much, aren't you actually getting less clamping pressure than if they were a bit shorter? |
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| Author: | WarrenG [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
Michael Jin wrote: This is probably going off on a tangent, but when the bars bend that much, aren't you actually getting less clamping pressure than if they were a bit shorter? I believe it's more. Where do you think the pressure's going? The more you bend the rod, the greater the resistance. The two ends of the rod are the only release points. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
What Todd said. I'll add that I tested this myself and posted results and pictures about a year ago but I can't find the thread right now. Anyway this is very easy for you to test for yourself and actually see the clamping pressure of the go-bars that you use. Just use the go-bars on a bathroom scale and vary the height of the scale to increase or decrease the deflection of the go-bar. I remember that my results were that the LMI go-bars provided about 7.5 lbs of pressure and the LMI go-bars provided about 17 lbs of pressure when both bars were deflecting 1.5". |
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| Author: | Michael Jin [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
WarrenG wrote: Michael Jin wrote: This is probably going off on a tangent, but when the bars bend that much, aren't you actually getting less clamping pressure than if they were a bit shorter? I believe it's more. Where do you think the pressure's going? The more you bend the rod, the greater the resistance. The two ends of the rod are the only release points. I was always under the impression that if your bars bent too much, you were getting less pressure because they are pushing outward instead of straight down. I could be completely wrong here, of course. I don't use go-bars myself and I've not had an opportunity to test them. ^^;; |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
The colum load can only be expressed in the plane of two contact points. Once the Colum has reach max critical buckling load all other loading is stored as potential spring load not kinetic. Now it is possible to reach such potential spring load that the friction between of the end point of the rod material and the deck or material being clamped is over come and you have a missile flying across the shop. But that high spring loading never changed the downward or vertical loading till the instant the friction bond was lost. Till that instant the vertical load was constant. But for this to happen the plane between the two contact points was not perpendicular to the two restraining planes |
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| Author: | WarrenG [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
Ha ha ha! God, I'm an idiot. I kept looking at the system like a bow and arrow (and resulting potential energy). Bad physics on my part. Take my degree away please... ToddStock wrote: More bend in the bar stores more spring energy, but does not apply any additional load. Once the bar reaches it's critical buckling load, the clamping pressure it applies is constant. For a 3/16" x 24" fiberglass bar, this point is reached with about 1" or less deflection and under 3/4" reduction in length. If you want to understand this, Google 'Euler theory column buckling ', or refer to any decent mechanics of materials text (Hibbeler, etc.).
Another consideration: for a constant diameter bar, the shorter one applies more pressure, so a 3/16" x 28" bar will exert a wimpy 5 lb clamping pressure or so, while the 24" bar will apply 7-8 lbs. And finally - just because it will come up again - the clamping pressure is always, always, always applied along a straight line between the two ends, so a bar with ends aligned such that they are vertical will never apply any side forces to a brace or box, while a bar whose ends are not vertical will apply some degree of side force (a very handy thing, indeed). |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I read people use go-bar, spool clamps, lots of cam (or C) clamp, or just rubber band. Vacuum press is out for me I don't even have space for one... I think I will go with rubber bands since it seems to be the easiest for someone with little toolings. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Closing the box |
I hear that Chuck Norris just stares at the top/back and they immediately clamp together, forming an airtight fit until the glue (which is actually Chuck Norris spit) holds fast in about 1-2 nano-seconds... |
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