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Ever get something like this?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18555		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Steve Saville [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Ever get something like this?
I just got an email. I have no idea who this is. I have changed all the names to protect the innocent(?).
What exactly is this? My scam alarm is going off. There are several obvious warnings.
I will most likely just delete this, but I wanted to know if others have received similar emails.



Quote:
Hello There,

My name is John Dowe and I'm with a group called The John Dowes, perhaps you've heard of us.

Anyways, I'm writing in regards to your guitars. And possibly working with you in the means of an endorsement.

I'm currently in the studio working on a Gospel/Duets project, which features some fantastic folks singing with me, such as The Buck Family, Grand Ole Ospry Member Jack Mule Deer, The Rabbits, and alot of others. The project is going to be used to help raise money for Animals.

I of course would make mention that I am endorsing your products in upcoming releases, on our website and on our myspace page (www.myspace.com/johnydoeydogs) as well as using it on the road. I'd also provide you with a promotional photo of me and the instrument as well as comments for you to use for promotion.

Anyways would love for you to consider the request and hope to get the chance to work with you.

Thanks for your time and I hope that you have a fantastic week!

Blessings,
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
John Dowe? laughing6-hehe

No contact info? This sounds like something that would be better done via phone than generic "Hello There" e-mail.

Grand Ole Ospry??? laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

Sounds Squirrelly to me...... :D

Kind of Fishy........ :roll: [uncle]
(i need to check the seal on my organic vapor cartridges)

Maybe it's someone you know messing around with you. idunno
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
Brad remember Steve said he changed all the names.

Steve, one thing I've heard and admire about Jim Olson is that when he showed James Taylor one of his guitars what, 25 years ago, and James wanted two of them, Jim told him what they would cost and got to work making the second one for him.

I know that some times a good way for us to get our names out there is to get our guitars in the hands of some well known players, but does that mean we have to give them away? I don't think so.

I would respond something like this...

Thank you for your email. It sounds like you are enjoying your efforts as a musician and have some measure of success.

As far as the guitar goes, I make guitars (for a living or hobby which ever may be your case) which is part of my income source and I do not have the ability to give my guitars away at this time.

I wish you all the best in your project.

Sincerely...
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
OH yeah, sorry about that. I for some reason thought it was just an omission of the sender's name. (I'll keep the Ricky Staggs and Rhonda Vixen poke to myself).

Seriously, though, I kind of agree with Rod. I do give away a guitar every now and then, but I pick who and when. Everybody out there wants you to give them a guitar and they will "endorse" you, but you have to be very careful about it. Many people want to get your guitar for nothing. The funny thing is, that I have sold more guitars via word of mouth from people who have bought them than who have endorsed me. There was a thread about this a while back, with some pros and cons either way, and I am not trying to bring that back up.

btw, the names you made up are hilarious.
Author:  James Orr [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
Rod, that's a great response. I'm putting it into my bag of professional speak. Thanks.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
Thanks James, that's certainly not the first thing that came to mind though :evil:
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
Steve,

This is a very common thing for people to do. I'm not sure there's any advantage to participating in such an arrangement. Most unknown musicians (if this is the case) never get to a place where it ever becomes beneficial to luthier to give them an instrument. Mostly, it just gets them a new handmade instrument for free, and you get left with a lot of hopes that somehow their career takes off and you get a mention somewhere as a result. I know someone who has made several instruments for such a guy for the bubble, and as far as I know, he's never received even one order as a result. And this is a very decent musician. If you really want such an arrangement to pay off, the musician needs to be as vested in you as you are in them. Otherwise it's a one-sided relationship and you're on the losing end.

Now...that said, you could choose to build it for cost plus a little extra, so that the advertising they do potentially give you, if it happens, provides some measure of equity for you. Or you could have them buy it now at normal pricing, and give them credits toward a future instrument or instruments resulting from future sales where a buyer references their advertising as reason for purchasing from you.

Don't forget what Brock talks about...marketing isn't about advertising.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
If you don't have an interest in giving him a guitar, DON'T RESPOND!!!
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
What Howard said.

Anybody worth considering to support would have the gumption, style, and savvy, to actually phone you. You know, make a personal connection.
Author:  pharmboycu [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
For one of ya'll to give away a guitar would be like me offering to fill prescriptions for free. This is how ya'll make your living-- it's not right to ask for something for nothing. I imagine it would be hard to pay the light bill on "I'll mention you in the liner notes for a free instrument."

I'm always amazed that some folks will try to get something for nothing. Not to mention that I have a different view on an endorsement deal. If you're given the product you're endorsing (i.e., at no cost to you), then I believe the endorsement to be null and void, amounting to paid advertising. It says a lot more about a maker's guitar if someone says, "Yes, I endorse this-- and I pay the same price for it that you do." If a player tells me that (which I have had them say), then the player tells me that he thinks so highly of the instrument that he would pay for it and turn down others that may have been offered to him for free. I've been fortunate enough to be a reference for two members of this forum. Each time a potential customer contacts me for a reference I always provide an honest, positive review and try to calm the nerves of someone willing to spend multiple thousands of dollars by saying that I am not compensated and would never accept compensation for being a reference-- that I *asked* if I could be listed as a reference because I believe in these luthiers that much. Maybe that's overkill, but even though most folks don't know me from Adam, I believe that's how any true endorsement should be done.
Author:  Frei [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
He just wants a freebee. But it would be interesting to see if he tells the truth about the people he plays with. Still not that big a deal half the country stars use brand names.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
beware responding to this email will put you suseptible to email spaming from other ipp adress that are directly related to the ipp adress. It is a multi level spam scam
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
pharmboycu wrote:
For one of ya'll to give away a guitar would be like me offering to fill prescriptions for free. This is how ya'll make your living-- it's not right to ask for something for nothing. I imagine it would be hard to pay the light bill on "I'll mention you in the liner notes for a free instrument."


That's not the way I see it. I would never "give away" a guitar unless it was a true gift. But I would trade one for something of equal value. Advertising costs money. A visible player may have a lot to offer in terms of advertising value. When you consider that a store charges between 15% and 50% to sell a guitar, a player would only have to help you sell a handfull of instruments to make it a fair trade. The hard part is figuring out how much someone's advertising is worth.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
I look at it this way. If this was legit then John Dowe should have at the very lest given a phone contact. He also never mentioned where and how he came to know your guitars. That I find unusual.

I did a quick search and there is a John Dowe and Tracy Lee You-tube video out there but I did not find any thing on John Dowe and the John Dowes at all.

My first response was based on an email I received about a month ago that my spam software sent me a warning on. It was worded slightly different and gave different names but other than that was pretty much the same miss-spells and all

You have to ask your self why he would be willing to endorse your guitars with out a request for endorsement. If he knows your guitars he as likely had access to one and why did he not mention what he though about your guitars.

This just sound to close to the one I got.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
MichaelP wrote:
.....I did a quick search and there is a John Dowe and Tracy Lee You-tube video out there but I did not find any thing on John Dowe and the John Dowes at all.........

Please read my first post - it says I made up the name. I guess I didn't do that great of a job.

I've had one forum member confirm the real name and say that he has been repeatedly asked by this guy about endorsing his guitars. It seems he just wants free stuff.

I might give a guitar away, but it would really have to be a good story of need or a good player that played the kind of music I was interested in building instruments for. I might give one to James, Tommy, Phil, Doyle etc if they asked nicely. [:Y:]
Author:  Andy Zimmerman [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
CAUTION
I got the exactly the same email, but with a different name
Here it is

Hello There,

My name is Christopher Ryan Jones and I'm with a group called The Bluegrass Mafia, perhaps you've heard of us.

Anyways, I'm writing in regards to your guitars. And possibly working with you in the means of an endorsement.

I'm currently in the studio working on a Gospel/Duets project, which features some fantastic folks singing with me, such as The Cox Family, Grand Ole Opry Member Jack Greene, The Isaacs, and alot of others. The project is going to be used to help raise money for missionaries overseas.

I of course would make mention that I am endorsing your products in upcoming releases, on our website and on our myspace page (http://www.myspace.com/crjandbgm) as well as using it on the road. I'd also provide you with a promotional photo of me and the instrument as well as comments for you to use for promotion.

Anyways would love for you to consider the request and hope to get the chance to work with you.

Thanks for your time and I hope that you have a fantastic week!

Blessings,
Christopher



Steve it is word for word the same as yours but different names. FREAKY!!!!!!!!!!
Author:  ChuckH [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
He is raising money for Animals? What's that mean? I don't know if you changed all the names of the groups but it is funny that every one is the name of an animal. "Buck, Ospry, Mule Deer, Rabbits. Even the name of his MySpace has Dogs in the name, which by the way has been deleted.

Beware Steve, I bet he has hit a thousand sites with the same request. Maybe Estevan will send him real nice guitar with snakewood binding or tiger stripe maple.

Just think, he is willing to send you a photograph of him smiling and holding your guitar. I'd smile too!
Author:  pharmboycu [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
Kent Chasson wrote:
pharmboycu wrote:
For one of ya'll to give away a guitar would be like me offering to fill prescriptions for free. This is how ya'll make your living-- it's not right to ask for something for nothing. I imagine it would be hard to pay the light bill on "I'll mention you in the liner notes for a free instrument."


That's not the way I see it. I would never "give away" a guitar unless it was a true gift. But I would trade one for something of equal value. Advertising costs money. A visible player may have a lot to offer in terms of advertising value. When you consider that a store charges between 15% and 50% to sell a guitar, a player would only have to help you sell a handfull of instruments to make it a fair trade. The hard part is figuring out how much someone's advertising is worth.


That's a good point. I guess if both the builder and the player can both work out an agreement that is mutually beneficial (like you said-- the player *actually* helping you sell a guitar through exposure to audiences) then that would be perfectly acceptable-- a trade rather than a gift.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
By the way, my previous response was not about your specific email, Steve. It was only about the overall concept of trading or discounting a guitar in exchange for advertising. That email looks on a par with "I need your help recovering $6,000,000 in a secret account in Sierra Leone". And let me tell you, that one's a scam! I've responded to 34 of them and have yet to get the $6,000,000 :D
Author:  James W B [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
I think someone wants a free guitar.Living in Nashville I`ve been offered that same type of deal.I personally graciously declined.
James W B
Author:  KenH [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
yes, I have got the same email, almost word for word.

I answered it as someone above suggested, with a kind refusal along with best wishes for a huge success.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
I really suspected that others got the same email. Funny how many didn't pick up that I changed the names.
I decided to have some fun. I replied back asking him what it was he liked about my guitars.
I'll let you know what he says.
Author:  Darrin D Oilar [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
I wonder if Tiger ever sent Nike a letter like this? idunno

Darrin
Author:  KenH [ Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
I just got another one, this time from a guy who claims to be a member of a bluegrass band. I sent him a note asking him to stop by my booth at the IBMA show to discuss it.
Author:  rgirdis [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ever get something like this?
I got the same email .
Read it, deleted it.
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