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Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
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Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
I just got my back set directly from India ! I know a friend there who directed me to this seller, got there best grade from for 40 USD. [:Y:] Still the postal service had it sent to the wrong adress at first so it´s been at the post office since the 20th of august :evil:
when It got here is was "heavy" and through the paper it was wrapped in I felt lots of moisture. so I hanged it up in my 45% controlled room and today I lookt at it and it had warped. now I am clueless on what to do, will it straighted out or do I have to put it under weight for some time ?? I took a few photos of it "and of my soon to be shop" but the new camera I just gor dont seem to be compatible with Mac "not my day" grr again. but when fixt I will post the photos aswell.

Lars.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
My guess is it will not flatten out on its own .. you will need to heat it flat - I have done this many times, I use my heat blanket, a piece of ply or two, and two 30lb dumbells ... on the top of my table saw. its jsut like bending a side, only in reverse. Turn the blanket on same heat as side bending, get the wood to heat up some, then add one 30lb er ... wait a few minutes, add the next one .. let it take the heat for about 15-20 minutes, then let it cool completely. EIrw should be pretty easy to fix, I have done this with coco and brw - wrap it in foil and add some moisture as well.
Author:  John Watkins [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
I use aluminum plates for this so that I can apply more pressure (which would damage a blanket). I put the plates in the oven at 400 for about 20 minutes and then sandwich the warped piece with a lot of clamps. Works great on fingerboards too.
Author:  joel Thompson [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Indian rosewood comes from india wet allmost allways.
in my experience if less that 5 sets are sent they allways arrive warped.
sticker and stack it and leave it a long time before using,
I buy my sets (and fingerboards) wet and kiln dry at this end which is what most dealers do.
i wish i had the time and space to air dry but i have got great results from my tiny little dehumidifir kiln.

$40 sounds a lot for a good set set from the regular indian sellers.
did shipping cost much?
if so you may have been better off buying a kiln dried set from one of the regular european suppliers.

However I am sure you will have lovely set once its dry.
if you need to use it fast place fans near it to circulate the air better.

Joel.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
There's savings, and then there's savings; I recommend Madinter for this sort of thing, prices are still very reasonable, and you won't get whacked on the head by the import duties monkey. I still keep their stuff for at least 6 months before using, but it's always been flat and felt almost dry enough...
Author:  Sam Price [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Mattia Valente wrote:
There's savings, and then there's savings; I recommend Madinter for this sort of thing, prices are still very reasonable, and you won't get whacked on the head by the import duties monkey. I still keep their stuff for at least 6 months before using, but it's always been flat and felt almost dry enough...


I would second that; sometimes the wood is a little "green"; but I don't mind storing the stuff for a while.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Thank you all so much for sharing !! great Tony, I dont have a blanket as of now, but am about to buy one. John Yhat way sound great, will try it for shure. the thickness of the plates are almost like 6 mm thick !! dont know if this is of any concern to the procedure ? Joel The 40 usd is shipping and taxes inkluded ! so to me its a great deal "I think :? " How long would you guys say I should keep it hangin before I can use it, and is there certain way of telling its good to start building with ?

Again, thanks for your kindness.
Will try to add a few photos to .
Lars
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Dry mount presses, for mounting photographs, work pretty well, if you have access to a big one. They get up to 350 deg F or so. But if you're doing rosewood, the platens need protection from the wood's resins.

Pat
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Don't hang it. Lay it between sets of stickers and weight it. At 6mm, I would say to wait at least a few months.

Indian wood suppliers seem to be clueless about drying wood, or the difference between wet and dry wood. Not only raw guitar sets, but even manufactured parts like violin pegs usually come from India green. Your experience is typical of all I have heard about buying wood from India.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Thanks for the help howard, will weight them !! I understand you meen weight them now, then check the weight in a few month ?

Attachment:
indian.JPG
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Actually, I meant that you put them on stickers and then put some weight on top of the top row of stickers in order to keep the wood pressed flat.

But you can use weight to test for dryness. A scale that reads in grams is accurate enough. When there is no more weight loss, you will not get the wood dryer by air drying. It still may be beneficial to force more moisture out then by some baking process, or a dryer environment; opinions differ quite a bit about that part.
Author:  joel Thompson [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
$40 is not bad shipping included i am sure you will get some lovely wood from your purchase,
but it can be a pain dealing with wet wood at the best of times.
when you buy rosewood sets from tonewood sppliers you not only pay the profit on the wood but you are also paying for the time and effort they have put in to make the wood usable for you.
when you take this into account paying slightly more is not so bad after all.

you need to sticker and stack the wood not hang it.
if you just hang the wet wood it will twist and warp all over the place as it dries.
if you want it to dry flat you need to place it on a flat serfice and put sticks between the peices of wood and then put a weight on top of it so that the wood is flat (this is what is howard is trying to say i belive).

I agree madinter is good for indian rosewood and as your currency is the euro you are not effected by the strong euro (something that is really troubling the uk market)

At the very least though this will be a good learning experience and it will help you understand how wood dries etc.

i would leave your wood at least 6 month to dry if not a year in my experience indian rosewood disipates moisture slower than some other woods.

Good luck,

joel.
Author:  joel Thompson [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
I just looked at the top pic,

that wood is not too badly bowed it should flatten out fine if you sticker it for a few months trust me i have much much worse.

however if you dont stack it now it may bow so much that it splits as is commomn whith wet wood that is left un stacked.
search in the archive for sticker and stack and you should find some pics of examples of stickered wood


Joel.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Great advices Thanks a million. will go down right now and put it on stickers ! and leave it for some months. will post photos before after as time is due.

Quote:
when you buy rosewood sets from tonewood sppliers you not only pay the profit on the wood but you are also paying for the time and effort they have put in to make the wood usable for you.
when you take this into account paying slightly more is not so bad after all.


I agree. allthough, like you also mentioned. I got some good experiance from it :geek: . :)

Lars.
Author:  BruceHerrmann [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Here's a pretty radical approach and I'll probably have the rosewood police beating down my door for this technique but it's worked for me. Some time back I inherited several Brazilian stumpwood sets. The backs were like potato chips. Really bad. I knew the odds were not
great but I thought I'd try something a little different. I soaked them for a couple of days
with a weight holding them down flat. Then, one by one, I set them on a flat surface and took
a hot iron to the surface. It quickly flattened the wood, I then clamped it flat and left if for quite some time. So far,the sets have stayed very flat and shows no sign of the abuse I put them through. It was one of those things that seemed like I no where to go but up and it's
worked so far. Soon, I'll sand a back set to final dimensions and brace it up and leave it for
a while to see how it holds. It's stumpwood after all and not as ideal as straight grain wood
but can't complain about the price.
Bruce
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Thanks Bruc. As for now, I have them stickered and stacked them "the set of roosewood" big stack haha.

But its a great advice future warps, or if this aproach does not work, Thanks.

Lars
Author:  joel Thompson [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
BruceHerrmann wrote:
I'll sand a back set to final dimensions and brace it up and leave it for
a while to see how it holds.
Bruce



This is were hanging the wood on pegs will work i know lowden hangs his backs and tops for a while after they are braced to let the aclimatise.
this may well be a good option for you as the moisture content may be a little high after all that soaking ;) .

I have heard of people using irons and moisture to flatten wood i suppose its just another method like using a heat blanket.

Good luck lars i am sure your wood will make an awsome once its dry i cant wait to see the finished product,

joel.
Author:  BruceHerrmann [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Arrival from India "back set curved" grrr.
Joel, agreed on the moisture issue. I plan to heat the wood before gluing the back bracing
( just to drive the moisture content down a bit more) probably using a heat lamp or something
to just warm up the wood. Of course, more drying time is required before I ever think
about bracing. The peg idea is a good one, I would not go further with this wood until
I'm sure it's stable once braced up. It may be ok but I'm not holding my breath. The figure
is incredible but unfortunately it takes more than figure to make a good, stable back. I even
thought about building an entire body and letting it set for a year of so with a sealer coat
to protect it. I'd feel a lot better about going through the whole process that way. I've had limited experience with the wood epoxies and found that they do have a place, I wonder it
using that for the back bracing with a set of wood like this makes any sense.......

Bruce
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