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| Bracing critique http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18687 |
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| Author: | billm [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bracing critique |
Hi all - I haven't been on this board for awhile, and my 3rd build has been going very slowly - been busy. Well have been giving it attention here the past couple of weeks and thought I'd ask you kind souls for some criticism on my bracing. I'm a little hesitant because I know I'm still learning a lot of things, and it isn't perfect, but I guess that's the whole point. Do your worst. Appreciate it!  - Bill   
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Hi Bill. The first thing that I see that I am concerned about is the upper transverse brace. It looks as if the ends are cut short of the kerfed linings. This brace needs to be inlet into the kerfed linings. I am not sure what body style guitar this is so perhaps this brace is long enough - don't know. |
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| Author: | billm [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Hesh wrote: Hi Bill. The first thing that I see that I am concerned about is the upper transverse brace. It looks as if the ends are cut short of the kerfed linings. This brace needs to be inlet into the kerfed linings. I am not sure what body style guitar this is so perhaps this brace is long enough - don't know. Yep - I was concerned about that too when I first cut it - but it juuuuust fits. But agree there is 0 margin there (hopefully I haven't fooled myself here). Edit - and to answer your question, this is based on a Taylor GS style. Thank you for the feedback! - Bill |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Looks like bracing... you'll want to add a small graft over top of the x-brace joint. 1/16-1/8" high to cover the openended brace. |
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| Author: | billm [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Rod True wrote: Looks like bracing... you'll want to add a small graft over top of the x-brace joint. 1/16-1/8" high to cover the openended brace. Perfect response Thank you.Yes, I have that graft planned. - Bill |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Oh and nice looking top, is it Sitka? nice medulary rays in it, they will really pop under finish. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Thanks Bill - OK the next thing that I see is that there is no hole in the upper transverse brace for truss rod adjustment. Perhaps you are going to adjust from the head stock? The peaks on the tone bars and finger braces look high and massive to me too. I think that a lot more mass could be removed from all of the braces below the UTB so long as you endeavor to maintain a triangular profile to the braces. If you suspend the top placing your thumb against the top edge of the sound hole or in other words hang the top on your thumb using the sound hole and you tap the front of the top over the peaks in your braces do you hear a "ring" or a thud. If you hear a thud the braces can be reduced in height where it thuds. Also carving a more triangular profile in the areas that thud removes mass but does not reduce strength much at all. The goal is to be able to tap your top anywhere tracing the pattern of the braces and have it ring everywhere. It's a bit of a revaluation the first time that you listen for the thuds, reduce the mass and height where you hear them and then hear a ring replace the thud. And when this makes sense to you you have also just discovered the basics for tap tuning and voicing. Another thing that may help you while carving braces is to use a finger plane to carve the triangular profiles in the sides of the braces. What results is a much smooth and more uniform looking brace than using a chisel, at least for me. Some folks can accomplish this well with just s chisel. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Although I do tuck them now, you don't have to worry about not tucking the transverse brace. I have done several without doing that and Bourgeois (Pantheon) unless changed since I was there don't. You can glue a piece of lining to it it so looks tucked if want. Never had a problem with it structual or otherwise. You don't need to try and remove it or whatever and just keep going. |
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| Author: | billm [ Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing critique |
Rod True wrote: Oh and nice looking top, is it Sitka? nice medulary rays in it, they will really pop under finish. Thank you! Yes, it's bearclaw actually. For some reason I splurged on this one, which is puzzling in retrospect. But thank you! Hesh wrote: Thanks Bill - OK the next thing that I see is that there is no hole in the upper transverse brace for truss rod adjustment. Perhaps you are going to adjust from the head stock?  On my second guitar, I forgot to put that in before gluing. I discovered that it was easy to do turning a drill bit with my fingers. Once I realized that, I decided I preferred that method - in case the brace slipped during gluing and became unaligned. So did that on purpose. Hesh wrote: The peaks on the tone bars and finger braces look high and massive to me too. I think that a lot more mass could be removed from all of the braces below the UTB so long as you endeavor to maintain a triangular profile to the braces. If you suspend the top placing your thumb against the top edge of the sound hole or in other words hang the top on your thumb using the sound hole and you tap the front of the top over the peaks in your braces do you hear a "ring" or a thud. If you hear a thud the braces can be reduced in height where it thuds. Also carving a more triangular profile in the areas that thud removes mass but does not reduce strength much at all. The goal is to be able to tap your top anywhere tracing the pattern of the braces and have it ring everywhere. It's a bit of a revaluation the first time that you listen for the thuds, reduce the mass and height where you hear them and then hear a ring replace the thud. And when this makes sense to you you have also just discovered the basics for tap tuning and voicing. Aha - this is what I was after. My braces were 3/4" tall last night. I was NOT pleased with the tone. I looked through the archives on bracing critique, and over and over again the feedback was "Too tall!" Well, I took everything down to 5/8" last night (and am very tired today). The tone is much, much better. My concern going lower is that I cut the X-intersection notch to 3/8". Worried about weakening the brace that goes "over". That said, I can reduce everything else. I chose 3/4" based on the OLF SJ plans. Haven't built one of those yet, but have been referring to them. OK - so - I took all the peaks down to 5/8", just generally. So to summarize your advice, I am looking for specific places on the top that thud, for targeted brace reduction. Very cool - thank you. Hesh wrote: Another thing that may help you while carving braces is to use a finger plane to carve the triangular profiles in the sides of the braces. What results is a much smooth and more uniform looking brace than using a chisel, at least for me. Some folks can accomplish this well with just s chisel. Yep - I'm using chisels and sandpaper. (Stanley chisels actually.) Thanks for the tip - I'm aware there are additional tools I would benefit from, and I've seen that one referred to. Thank you! - Bill |
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