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Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18700		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SkyHigh [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Hi!

This is my first guitar/bracing. Please give me honest opinion as to way I braced and carved. I have not sanded yet so it's in some what of rough form.

Thanks, David

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Author:  Hesh [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Hey David:

First off I am wondering how high the X-brace intersection is - it looks very high to me. You can safely take this down to 5/8" in height if it not already at 5/8th". Also the X-brace intersection needs to be capped, just a 1/16th" thick piece of quartered spruce from the brace stock will do nicely.

My biggest concern for now about your bracing is that they all look pretty square and don't have nice, smooth triangular profiles. It looks to me that before you even think about reducing height in places, and I would do that later too, get rid of some of the excess mass by carving the braces into triangular profiles. You probably could drop at least 30% more mass this way. This goes for the upper transverse brace too.

You are on your way though and this is when to think about further carving your braces - good job! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Oh and I forgot - how thick is your top?
Author:  cmacksam [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Looks good generally, but I see gaps in your X joint. You profiled 'em before you glued 'em, didn't you? oops_sign I'm not sure that just capping the joint will suffice. I hope that someone who's done this (I bet it's happened before!) will see this and join in.
Author:  Wes McMillian [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
First thing I saw was the gaps in the X, too. Maybe someone can chime in with more experience, but that just screams "do-over" to me. I remember reading the article a while back (I think in AL?) about the L-00 simply being butted at the X and not lapped at all. Maybe a patch would help this area, but it wouldn't leave me very warm and fuzzy.

Aside from that, I see a good start. Still lots of mass that can be reduced. As Hesh said, start with reducing mass from the sides first, then slowly start reducing the height. Look at lots of bracing pics and critiques on this forum for ideas. Again, my only concern is the X.

Also, how thick is that bridge plate? Looks pretty thick to me. On my first, I put the bridge plate in full thickness as it came from StewMac, not knowing any better. Guitar still sounds real good, but I wish I'd realized it when I was at this stage and would have corrected it. I may still replace it now that the guitar is well played-in just to see the difference.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Yeah, the X lap joint looks bad. The diagonal bars and finger braces can be tapered down closer to the top where they meet the X. I personally think there's no need for the scalloping to look like suspension bridges, but I have seen that kind of shape in guitars made by experienced builders. The X angle looks a little closed; are you following a plan? is this a 14-fret guitar? kit?
Author:  SkyHigh [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
The top is .130
X- Brace where it joins, .613
Bridge plate is .125

I am going to cap the X-brace...heavily since I have a gap.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and keep at it please.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Is there a reason you made your top and bridge plate .005 thicker than normal.The x brace should be a tight fit. You can insert wedges before you cap it though, to make it tighter.Just wandering what your thickness is on the back and sides? Looks like a nice start so far.Mark
Author:  SkyHigh [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
So I spent bit more time carving, measureing, taking pictures.

Tell me what I need to do please :)

.543 at the X-brace where it joins
.420 and .480 on the peak point of x brace where I scalloped. Yes, there is a difference I need to correct
.290 valley on X-brace
.225 average on the tallest part of finger braces
.485 on tonebar peak at the edge
.440 on tone bar peak closer to X- brace
.250 valley on tonebar

And yes, I still need to sand and clean up. Just holding it off since I still might have to adjust or carve.

Thank you, David

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Author:  SkyHigh [ Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
slabmaster wrote:
Is there a reason you made your top and bridge plate .005 thicker than normal.The x brace should be a tight fit. You can insert wedges before you cap it though, to make it tighter.Just wandering what your thickness is on the back and sides? Looks like a nice start so far.Mark


I wish I knew what bridge plates were suppose to be. I guess now I know and my 2nd build will have thinner plate. btw, this is a kit so I didn't have choice on many things. Thanks for the input.

David
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
You could try thinning the bridge plate a bit with a finger plane and sharp chisel for the corners. If anything feathering it out toward the rear will help. Around .100" is standard. Top seems very thick as well, unless it's real floppy. Doing quite a bit of perimeter sanding on the lower bout edges once the box is assembled may help a great deal as well.
If your rosette is inlaid well and deep you could try thinning your top with a mechanical sander from the outside, but it's tricky to keep a constant thickness. If the rosette is shallow I wouldn't attempt it.
Author:  SkyHigh [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Hmm...I have not gotten much response after posting 2nd set of pictures.
Is it that bad to a point beyond what can be salvaged?
wow7-eyes

I just want to be clear in terms of if it's ok to move on to next step or if I need to work on it bit more...or even start all over with new top. idunno

Any info would be greatly apprecited.

Thanks, David
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
Hi,

For your first build you're doing just fine. Remember it's your first build and one of the objectives is to understand the parts and how they go together. We naturally tend to over build on our first.

I would suggest that you sand the braces and clean things up for now and continue with the build. Hint, reducing the amount of lead use in outlining will greatly reduce your efforts in clean up.

This will be you best first guitar. Your next will be better and the next better again....

Enjoy the experience; learn lots and thanks for sharing.
Author:  JRessler [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
The finger braces (small ones on the side) are typically not let into the kerf lining. So you'll want to cut those back so that they miss the kerf lining and feather the ends to nothing. Many builders also do not let the lower portion of the x-brace into the lining as well - some do, some don't.

The ends of the other braces that will be let into the kerf lining need to be flat so that it will fit nice and secure in the brace pocket that you will route into the kerf lining. You have the ends rounded right now. I generally make the ends about 1/8" high.

The Upper Transverse Brace scallop should be cut back more - you don't have much room right now for the kerf lining. You could cut it back twice as far as you have it now - again, keep the end flat.

As others have said - overall it looks pretty good for a first attempt - is a bit heavy all around- but you are on a good path. Take some time to clean it up, get the ends set properly and move on. It will sound good. I would also sand the top (after the back and top is glued to the sides) around the perimiter of the lower bout with a RO sander as suggested before. This will help free it up a bit.

Good luck - keep us informed of the progress!
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
others have given lots of great advice - if I can add to that, I would heat the bridge plate off and replace it with a new one ... no thicker than .090.
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Small Jumbo Bracing critique please
As Tony and Laurent have said - Replace or thin down your bridge plate.
Work on shaping your braces and feathering the ends on lower X ,tone bars,and
finger braces. And thin the lower bout around the edge after closing the box. Not bad
for a first,but needs a little work. Good Luck and have fun with the rest of your guitar.
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