Official Luthiers Forum!

Guys,
Kevin Ryan was very kind to let me put this together for my friends here at the OLF and as promised here are the details.



ZipFlex is the all new, redesigned FlexiAb. Until Kevin updates his site, all the details can be found here on my old site along with pictures:
http://www.projectzion.com/zipflex

It comes in 15 inch strips in Paua, Blue Paua, Green Abalone or Select Green Abalone.
For the OLF offer to keep it easier the strips will be .055" tall by .057" wide by 15 inches.
You will need 4 to do a soundboard or a back and 8 to do the sides.
As you can read in the FAQ's, the shell itself is .047" wide but its bordered by .005" jet black matrix on each side making it a total of .057"
Kevin will be supplying a world leading guitar manufacturer and thats the size they will be using.

Let me give you my take on the ZipFlex:
No more messing around with Teflon Strips. No more trying to get clean breaks while trying to fit the shell in the tight channel.
This stuff is highly flexible and bends in all axis. You just route out the purfling channel and glue in like you'd do with any veneer purfling.
If you ever wanted to do side Abalone Purflings this will solve all the problems!


So here's the deal.
You can select any type of shell (as long as .057" wide)
And you can order AS MANY as you want!!!! Yep, you read it right!

This will be a ONE TIME OFFER! I will run this offer directly for 10 days and after that Kevin will start shipping within 2 weeks.
For the OLF group buy each strip will cost $23.50 plus $6.00 flat shipping via Priority Mail. Please contact me for international orders.
Disclaimer - Kevin Ryan's actuall price is $22.50 per strip but I am adding $.30 Paypal Flat Fee plus their 2.9% commission
that works out to about $1 per strip. If you rather send a check or moner order feel free to send only $22.50 plus ship. per strip.

If you purchase individual Abalam Shell Strips from any of the regular vendors, the price works out to about $1.50 to $1.75 per inch.
ZipFlex's price works out to $1.5 per inch. By far a better value!!


Its late so I may have missed something...
I'll keep posting as it comes to mind. Feel free to ask if you have any questions or look at the FAQ's on my site for more details.

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

So by looking at the pictures on your website Peter, it will work fine for a rosette yes? How many pieces required for a rosette and the top purfling? My guess is 5 but thought I'd ask. I didn't look in your original thread so if you've answered this already I appologize. By the way, the FAQ on your website isn't working. If possible some good close ups of the different paua and abalone would be great.

If 5 for the top and rosette than count me in for 10 pieces of the select green abalone please (but let me confirm when I paypal the order after seeing some pics of each type).

Thanks Peter

Oh and once this deal is over will we still be able to get it directly from Kevin at a later date?

_________________
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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Rod,
the FAQ's is working now...sorry.

Kevin may offer directly or through vendors. I'm not sure yet.

Thanks,

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Thanks Peter,

And just so everyone else knows...

It will work for rosettes according to the FAQ.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Peter,

Excellent, where do we send checks and to whom do we make them out? I want a ton of them...

Your wording "...each strip will cost $23.50 plus $6.00 flat shipping..." presumably means that it's just a one-time $6 fee to ship however many we order, and not $6 shipping per strip right?

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

I'm in too....where do I sign?

_________________
http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Wow, that's cool looking stuff.... does he do this in any custom widths or other shell types? Kevin is a genius....eh?

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

(newbie here) Isn't .057 bit thin for rosette? Is the idea to combine two strips to make it thicker for rosette? or just use it as a thin rosette?

David

Well this is cool product and all but the math just does not work out for me. It would cost $705 ($23.50 per 15" @ 450") in material to do a D45 (peghead, fretboard, top edge, rosette, back edge, back center seam, sides). I pay $.70 per inch for Select Blue Paua and Red Heart natural shell. That is $315 in material cost for natural shell. this means that the Zipflex cost $390 or 2.24 times more than natural shell. I can break a lot of natural shell for that.

So while the product interests me I will have to pass thank you.

Michael,
I'm sure at $.70 per inch you are getting solid shell. I think you may not need to get the ZipFlex for the fretboard and back seam because its totally straight.
The real advantage is comparing it to Abalam (price wise) and ease of instalation. Doing a D45 with ZipFlex wpould save you hours!
While you can do the whole guitar in solid shell, the color on the Abalam will be more consistent and doing the sides will be a breeze compared to an ordeal....

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Payment can be made to me at info@cornerstoneguitar.com for Paypal payments or you can send Kevin a check directly.
$6.00 is a flat rate shipping for any amount.

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

The savings here is definitely in time rather than in material cost. For anyone doing production work, shaving an hour or two off a guitar is huge. That's where this stuff is going to really excel. The only concern I have is the joints between the segments and how the purflings will line up / meet up. I'd love to see this stuff in lengths long enough to go completely around the perimeter of a top, or around a whole side. That would be fantastic. I suspect it's a tooling issue that keeps him from doing that.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Don,
just like with regular strips, once the strips are inlaid against each other there are no visible joints.

_________________
Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Yes I get solid select grade natural shell for $.70 per inch for Paua and Red heart. Not counting channeling for the inlay since that has to be done no matter the product inlayed it takes me maybe 4-6 max hours to inlay a complete d45 with natural shell so let say I get $30 an hour for my inlay time that is $180. Subtract that from the $390 more than Zip flex would cost that leaves $210 difference in total inlay cost. that means that at $30 an hour the Zipflex would have to save me 7 hours off my total inlay time or in other words I would have to be able to inlay a D45 with Zipflex in a negitive 1 hour time frame just to cost me the same as inlaying using natural shell. Since it is impossible to inlay something in a negative time frame, the numbers just don't work for me. Yes I see how it can save some time. The problem is for me that it does not save enough time to come close to a break even to the cost of inlaying natural shell at a $30/hr rate. It falls 7 hours or $210 short of doing so. I really do wished it paid off but I can't make the numbers work.

Micheal,

You haven't said where you get it from...

To who's eye?

I can always spot the joint quickly, and even the tiniest of a mismatch hits my eye like a brick.
It's a curse I tell you....

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Those darned sea critters....why don't they just cooperate and grow in nice long continuous linear strips?

Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

I get all my shell from Andy DePaule Important thing here I am talking about real natural shell not ablam or any other laminated shell. It is a bit more work than ablam and I am sure Zipflex but for me not 2.24 times the cost more work

OK, So now Peter has to start a new thread because there's been to much "discusion" about the price of this stuff. Not that people shouldn't know or be informed, it's just that this is suppose to be for the group buy interest. If your not interested in buying some of the product why post?

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I'd say Kevin Ryan has a pretty good eye for detail, don't you think?

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Hey, I sound kind or grumpy today so some of you might just want to ignore me

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Sorry, Rod, did you say something?

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

That's pretty impressive. Thread hijacking aside, if we're comparing apples to apples then that means that you can colour match and perfectly mitre hundreds of pieces of shell in a curved channel in a matter of hours. We're talking about a cosmetic portion of the instrument, after all, and unless you're pulling out a real inlay miracle then there's no comparing the two processes on that basis. One's the look of solid marble and the other is tile...

(I also charge at least as much as my plumber for my time, but that's your choice to make)

_________________
Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

Dear Friends,
As far as I know, this is the first time I have ever posted to a newsgroup. At any rate, I wanted to make myself available to answer any questions about the zipflex. And I want to thank my good friend Peter M. for getting the ball rolling on this.
Blessings to all,
Kevin

Rod, I think it's perfectly appropriate to discuss the merits of the product and the pricing within this thread. If for no other reason, it gives those thinking about participating food for thought. Do I want these? Why? Why not? Is the cost worth the time savings? Will they look as good as other methods? There are even more questions than these that should naturally get raised, otherwise we would purchase blindly without really thinking it through. Another question is, "How thick is the shell in these?" And is it solid or laminated, because if it's thin and laminated, then the question of "How easily can I sand through it?" should be raised. That's all that is really happening here.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."