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| Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18804 |
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| Author: | GHatcher [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
Well, I was trying to make some progress on this guitar I need to finish, and sanded the body. Afterward, I wiped down with Alcohol to get an idea of how it would look under stain. Then I noticed that my maple bindings had a purple tint. I tried to carefully clean the maple with more alcohol, but there still is some purple there. What is the best way to clean this and to avoid making this mistake again. Thanks, Greg |
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| Author: | joel Thompson [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
has the rosewood dust got into the maple? you can seal you binding with shelac to avoid contamination but otherwise you just have to be carfull. I presume you got tome rosewood mixed with alcohol which got wiped into the bindings so alcohol wouldent remove it. if it was me i would give it avery light scrape. Joel. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
If you lightly sand the smears with 220 they may go away, if you're lucky wiping with naphtha will clean up some. Best way to check your colours is lightly wiping with naphtha or mineral spirits, it won't bleed. Avoid at all cost alcohol, lacquer thinner or acetone. If you seal with shellac, spray it, or be very good at a quick, light swipe. The solvent is alcohol, which makes oily woods bleed. |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
What about water? Will that make rosewood bleed too? |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
Andy Birko wrote: What about water? Will that make rosewood bleed too? ? No, but like alcohol it will raise the grain. |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
laurent wrote: Andy Birko wrote: What about water? Will that make rosewood bleed too? ? No, but like alcohol it will raise the grain. I ask because I'm currently building a rosewood guitar - my first experience with rosewood. My original plan was to seal with shellac then follow with a water based pore filler. Per your descriptions, I think I'm changing my plan to exclude the shellac seal coat and start straight with the water borne filler. Possibly I might try epoxy but generally that just sounds like a big mess to me. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
Andy Birko wrote: laurent wrote: Andy Birko wrote: What about water? Will that make rosewood bleed too? ? No, but like alcohol it will raise the grain. I ask because I'm currently building a rosewood guitar - my first experience with rosewood. My original plan was to seal with shellac then follow with a water based pore filler. Per your descriptions, I think I'm changing my plan to exclude the shellac seal coat and start straight with the water borne filler. Possibly I might try epoxy but generally that just sounds like a big mess to me. Epoxy is no more messy than water based filler. Just stickier if you your are un-tidy. I now use Med thick CA for most of all my fills. you have to use a resporator and goggels but is the quickest simplest fill I have ever done Your first mistake as others have said was not sealing your top and bindings with a 1# cut of shellac to avoid the oil and dust cross contamination. Do not ge down on your self. most will make this mistake once. |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
MichaelP wrote: Your first mistake as others have said was not sealing your top and bindings with a 1# cut of shellac to avoid the oil and dust cross contamination. Do not ge down on your self. most will make this mistake once. Just a quick point of order - I'm not the original poster. I'm just interested in the advice as I'll be finishing my first rosewood git in a little bit. And I'm thinking of maple bindings too. Next question - I'm perplexed as to how one could scrape the bindings flush while avoiding oil and dust cross contamination. What's the order? Bind, scrape, mask off the rosewood, seal maple and top with shellac, pore fill rosewood? p.s. I'm still contemplating the epoxy - I am pretty messy but I've still got a month to think about it. p.p.s. I was also asking about the water because my pre-bent sides have what looks like water staining on them from the bend. I'm hoping this will come off when I sand/scrape etc. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
Andy Birko wrote: MichaelP wrote: Your first mistake as others have said was not sealing your top and bindings with a 1# cut of shellac to avoid the oil and dust cross contamination. Do not ge down on your self. most will make this mistake once. Just a quick point of order - I'm not the original poster. I'm just interested in the advice as I'll be finishing my first rosewood git in a little bit. And I'm thinking of maple bindings too. Next question - I'm perplexed as to how one could scrape the bindings flush while avoiding oil and dust cross contamination. What's the order? Bind, scrape, mask off the rosewood, seal maple and top with shellac, pore fill rosewood? p.s. I'm still contemplating the epoxy - I am pretty messy but I've still got a month to think about it. p.p.s. I was also asking about the water because my pre-bent sides have what looks like water staining on them from the bend. I'm hoping this will come off when I sand/scrape etc. oil contamination requires a carrier for the oil (a solvent or water). Dust contamination required a fine dust like made from sanding or sawing. When you use a scraper you are making ribbon type chips not dust that far to large to settel in the pores of a lighter wood. Most color staining from rosewood is cause by a carrier transfering oils from the rosewood to the lighter wood. this is seen as a color stain on the light wood. It is differnt from the dust settling into the pores and grain structure of a lighter wood. Now it is possible for a carrier to carry either and both to the lighter wood. It is very rare for rosewood to color stain a lighter wood just by surface contact. you pretty much have to interduce the color by a carrier like alcohol or some other solvent or water. lay a piece of maple on the bench and contact rub a piece of rosewood across it unless the rosewood is wetted with a solvent or water you will not transfer color. A scraper interduces no carrier and if it is properly sharp it will not create dust. The stains on your pre bent sides are more than likely resin that has cooked out during bending. This will scrape off easy. It may be moisture staining if the person tha bent them used a good bit of moisture but this to would scrape off fast. |
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| Author: | GHatcher [ Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
All: Thanks for your replies and encouragement. I will try to clean it up this weekend. I had planned to seal the bindings before starting with the pore filling, but did not realize the issue with the alcohol. Greg |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Need Help. Rosewood bled onto maple bindings |
Bleach takes mineral stains out of maple boards,but don't know what it would do to the rosewood.You might try it on some scrap pieces first.Just a thought.Mark |
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