Official Luthiers Forum!

I am getting some machines for the shop ! BUT what are the minimum powers and sizes I will need ? I never bought the Bandsaw I gonna get, as I heard it was to weak. 550W, 12" size model 330 weel. ?? Need it for being able to atleast do some headstock vaneering and splitting neckwood. etc.etc. there are some really cheap ones here in Sweden, but to me they look like crap and dont feel sturdy, so I am not shure on what to get.

Drill Press. Minimum Watt size and hight, table model or large ?
BandSaw Minimum Watt, weelsize. Minimum blade to back dimentions and hight of cutting. At least for being able to do some headstock vaneering and splitting neckwood.
BeltSander Minimum lenght of sander mainly for fixing the braces with "The Brace Maker", "90 degree angle model needed ?" (could I get by with the 16" lenght model ?)

Thanks in advance. Lars

Hey Lars
Good to see someone else spell lenght like that, my brain or hands just seem to do it

With the drill press I have a small benchtop model which gives me some frustration
More than Wattage which should not be an issue for drilling wood I would consider
-travel, mine only has 2" which is not always enough
-height from table to bit can be limiting particularly with larger longer bits
-throat distance (Centre of bit to post) or swing (twice throat distance). A small benchtop model is quite limiting if you want to say use a circle cutter in the middle of a soundboard
I really want to upgrade to a pedestal model.

With the beltsander look for one with a good flat platen which lines up nicely with the rollers, mine does not......
regards
Jeff

Watts is a tough measure! We usually think in terms of how many Amps we are pulling at a given Voltage.

If you can do the conversion to metric (I'd have to look it up back in the office in the AM), I think a bandsaw should be able to exert 2 HP if you really want to resaw. I started with a regular old Delta 14" cast iron saw with a riser, and it was always touch and go until I did the conversion from the stock motor to a 2 HP Baldor. In the present market, it is possible to buy the right 14" saw configuration right off the shelf. See all the threads where Todd Stock has commented on this issue. (He's like me - he upgraded a stock 14" saw just because that is what he had.) 2 HP + a carbide tooth blade = wow this is fun!!

If you don't want to resaw 10" wide exotic hardwoods, then a lot of the stock benchtop 10" up to 12" saws can do most of what you need. Make sure the saw has decent blade guides, though.

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

1HP ~ 750w

(1HP = 745.699872 to be more precise)

Go for at least 1HP on the bandsaw, 1.5 is better. 14" is pretty standard here in the states. I just purchased a Rikon deluxe 14" with the 1.5hp and I'm just able to re-saw 12" maple for backs. I'm wondering now if I should have saved a little longer and gotten the 2hp 18" model. Size was a bit big on that though.

_________________
http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Lars, whatever the jobs are you think you will be doing with your machines, do not let them set the size. You will always find new jobs for the machines that require more size and more power. You also should not be running the machine very often at its maximum capacity in size or power. That's why the rule you will keep hearing among woodworkers is that after you figure out which can machine can do the maximum job you can think of needing it for, always get a machine bigger and more powerful than that one.

The minimum sizes most of us have in inches and horses: bandsaw 14", 1 hp; drill press 17", power not critical but no less than 1/2hp (whatever motor comes on a 17" drill press is likely to be OK); belt sander 6" x 48", 1 hp. Get the belt and disc combination, you will find the disc useful.

It's not just about size and power, either. The machines in sizes smaller than these are not made as well. These are the minimum sizes that are built for commercial use; the smaller ones are built for hobbyists. You may think you are a hobbyist, but if you can afford or save enough money, don't get hobbyist machinery.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Thanks a lot my friends.
Howard. Ive been looking at the "hobbyist machines" !! BUT, I will try and see if I can get myself something a click better then" the 14 inch machines seem to get way higher in price than the 12" and also if I need to resaw backs, the hight of cutting will need to be atleast 8-9 inches. those machines are like 1000 USD and up, "used" here in Sweden.! Havent found any deltas bandsaws here though, been looking like crasy.

To make a motor change is an idea to ! good one kirby thanks.
My grammer is just as bad as my spelling Jeff haha


Lars.

Over here where my neighbor Lars and I live, it is much more common to think in terms effect / Watts (here, HP is now usually only used when referring to combustion engines) than aperage. I’m not entirely sure why, perhaps it is because the domestic voltage here is 230V, so the amperages are much lower for the same effects (P=UxI), which results in less heat so our cable gauges and circuit amp ratings can be much smaller and less troublesome. And we use metric units for machine measurements, of course.

I agree with everything Howard said about machinery. Unlike the US however, there is not much offered between pure hobby machines and heavy industrial equipment any more. The prices are also ridiculouly inflated compared to the US, so I recommend looking for second hand, professional machines. Yes, you may have to tinker a bit and add some TLC, but at least you will end up with something useful. And mass is your friend when it comes to stationary machines (until you have to move it, that is…).

Here’s a link to a list several companys all over Europe selling mostly used machinery. Most of what is offered is way oversized for guitar work, but you will find the occasional band saw, table saw, drill press, edge sander etc in the right sizes.

http://www.e-imr.com/eIMR/MachineRegisterSearch?ID=987765927560&MachineType=Wood

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I don't know Lars buddy although I agree with the idea that you would benefit from getting a machine that is bigger then the job that you have in mind I also think that you would benefit, perhaps more, from getting "big enough" and saving some coin for a thickness sander too. Thickness sanders open up whole new possibilities for you and your building and mine is one of my most used tools now.

So if you have no intention of resawing your own wood a decent 14" band saw would be fine IMHO. The machine that our friend Andy mentioned, the Rikon looks like a great saw for the money and enough saw for me and anything that I would do with it.

Also consider what you are going to do about dust extraction and air cleaning? So again you might want to consider not investing a great deal of money in one tool that has capabilities beyond your desired use and instead trying to get more of the things that you will need and use.

And please don't forget to get a decent fire extinguisher too.

By hobbyist, are you refering to Lowes & Home Depot type equipment? Because right now, I am in the market for a drill press, table saw and band saw.

Mike

Thanks alot for all the inputs. I am sooo confused !! hahaha. well It seem like I will be getting a GOOD 1500W bandsaw then but I am with you Hesh, that I am not shure I will be doing resawing, and if I am I have some friends whop has some large pro "resawing" bandsaws I could use. And yes I DO wanna get the JET 10-20 or up thickness sander to. havent found any in Sweden England seems closest to me, hmm. dust extraction is something I will get to, wasnt to much fun to write about though "like getting socks on christmas"
Todd ! thanks, great info ! just what I needed. HOW would you use a table saw with the brace maker ? cut the worst of and then sand the rest ?. I have a table saw already so thats good news !
ARNT, thanks for the link, seems like they dont have any in my size right now, but great link to have though !
there is a guy here in Sweden I just talkt to who is selling his home made edge sander 1,5 meters long for about 250USD.
he said built it on a engineers class something. but it dont have the disk sander on it though. so many machines to choose from hmm.

Will send a photo of the machines as I get them.

Lars

Does anyone know where close to Sweden I could find a Performax or a JET 10-20 or 16-32 drum sander ??? or even in the USA that would ship one to here ??. I know it would be alot but they dont exist in Sweden !! as far as I know.

Lars.

Lars, I don't know about Sweden, but you can get most Jet tools from C. Dahm maskinforretning in Bergen, Norway.

Now check their prices compared to the US http://www.dahm.no/ See what I mean? Ridiculous!

Don't order from the US unless you plan to change the motor. Even if you get their 220V versions, the frequency will be wrong (60 Hz there vs. 50 Hz here), which will lead to overheating, inefficiency and high risk of motor failure. Then there is the shipping...

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin