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| Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18995 |
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| Author: | Nalu [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Hello Everyone, Im making my own side bender and I am wondering if I should use Light-Bulbs or a Heat Blanket?. Are there any significant Advantages or Dis-Advantages to the two? and what are your suggestions?. Aloha, Nalu |
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| Author: | Vincent Simokovich [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
I am sure the experts will be along shortly, but here's my two cents. I've bent several side sets with a heating blanket purchased from John at Blues Creek and I've had no problems whatsoever. I would go with the heating blanket. The heat is uniform and the blanket gets up to over 300 degrees fahrenheit in no time at all. Vince |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
I agree. The blankets are worth the expense and John is the man. Welcome, Nalu, what part of the islands are you from? Pat |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
I think I am looking into getting a blanket for future builds if I decide to bend my own sides. I can build the jig/form myself and save the expense of shipping a bunch of heavy woods to Taiwan. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
All this is true. But light bulbs do work well. However, they do not tend to last long due to the thing being knocked about as you work with it. I don't have a blanket yet, but I am odering one soon (from John, of course)  That said, it is very impressive how 600 watts of lights can turn this thing into an oven very quickly. You can burn the crap out of yourself if you are not careful (and, as Crazy Michael will tell you, I am the epitome of carfullness). Mike |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
I don't think bulbs are an option. You'll have the heat, but it will be uneven in places. Many of the methods we've discovered produce well bent sides with little spring back won't be available to you with bulbs because you won't be able to control temperature, bring it down for an extended cook, and so forth. You don't have the control, the even heat, or the efficient user experience with bulbs. If you go for the blanket, I think you'll be happy you did. Likewise, when I went with bulbs, I was sorry I did 
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Blanket...works great, lasts a long time, wipes clean with a damp cloth!  Seriously, one time with the blanket and you'll never believe you used anything else! And, John IS the man!
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Another vote for the blanket here, although I did successfully manage to bend many sides when my bender had only light bulbs, or rather the entire guts including reflectors, from a couple of cheap work lamps, as a heat source. These days I use the blanket, from John Hall of course, and the bulbs. The blanket heats the wood from the outside, the bulbs from the inside. BTW, I monitor the heat by spraying water on the outside slat and observing how it behaves (it should "dance", just like on the pipe / bending iron). |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Blanket! I purchased a video some years ago from LMI showing how to use their fox style bender with light bulbs. The poor guy who did the video struggled in front of the camera for 1/2 an hour just to bend one stinkin EIRW side. And he had done hundreds of them.......... There was a lot of waiting too for the thing to heat up. After viewing the video I ordered a blanket from John Hall, Blues Creek and never looked back. |
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| Author: | Chris aka Sniggly [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
I have researched the daylights out of this and I am definitely going to be doing the blanket thing with John Hall. No question. |
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| Author: | John Killin [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
I bent my first (and only) set with light bulbs. I didn’t know enough then to know I was having trouble. I really didn’t have things hot enough to do a proper bend. It turned out Ok, but if I had it to do again I would not use the bulbs. I am more likely to try on a hot pipe and if funds become available I will definitely go with the blanket. Good Luck, John |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
A blanket will at some point or another save you a side set. Bulb heat consistency through out the piece being bent is subject to how close the heat source is at any given time during a bending operation. In other words until the wood is bent and setting against the form heat is escaping into the shops atmosphere. And only where the wood is close and or contacting the form is the wood being heated at the bulbs full efficiency and even then very inconsistently across the full lenght of the side. Many hot spots and cooler spots. With a blanket the heat is always the same the full length of the wood. No hotspot and cool spots. Consistent even heating. If you rig up to use bulbs you will need at least one if not three 600W dimmers, three ceraminc bulb sockets 3 200w clear bulbs and nomax cable. That roughly $50 bought new. For $60-70 more you have the better system. NO brainer!!!! |
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| Author: | Nalu [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions! Well it seems that the answer to this is Heat Blanket! This is good to know because I was originally making my bender with light bulbs in mind but I made my bender so small that I cant fit the mold in without hitting the protruding light bulbs ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad") .So I guess ill make a purchase from John Hall and buy a blanket. This way I can still use my bender. Thanks again, Nalu Oh Pat I'm from the island of Oahu and the weather is really nice super sunny and warm. But it does become a chilling low 70's at night! haha |
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| Author: | JRE Productions [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
If economically you can afford the blanket on the first build, I would go that route. I am using bulbs because I had all the part in-house to build it that way. We have no trouble bending non-cutaway guitars with it. I have had quite a bit of trouble bending cutaways on it though. Evenly distributed heat becomes the issue on the inside bend radius. Good luck and WELCOME! |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Being a Mechanical engineer, I would like to point something out. First, bulbs are an economical way to go for new builders. But if you do not build the "thermal mass" into the bending form, you will have problems. (metal spreader bars, sheet metal blankets, etc) Mike |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
I'll throw this out there and see if it comes back to hit me in the head.... Is this your first shot at bending sides? Why build a machine to do it for you? Why not spend $10 or less (scrap supplies) and make a hot pipe? Learn to bend the wood by hand so you know what it's doing while bending. You'll have much less issues over time. The blanket is not the biggest solution to most peoples bending problems, knowing what the wood is doing while trying to bend it is. The blanket is just the most efficient way to get the entire side up to a uniform temperature across the entire piece. Once you get there, you still need to know how fast to bend and how much pressure to apply. Having said this, I get much better outcome with my heating blanket in my bender (I use a doolin style though) than I did with bulbs in my fox style. I still have a pipe and bend my cutaways on it and binding too at times. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
 I combine the bulbs and blankets. Open bottom, no fans on in the shop. A/C off. Silicone blanket in the foreground. 2 200 Watt bulbs inside. You live and learn, I picked up an important tip on Taylor Guitars Video Shop Tours, outside bends only. This solves scorching at the waist. If you are not getting better, you're just getting older. Here is a link: http://luthiersforum.3element.com/pages/jig_tools_tech/olson_inspired_combo_bender.htm Good luck, you got a lot of great advice. Hot Pipe, Electric Pipe, Bulbs, and Blankets. I like the Electric Pipe for touch up. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Speaking of light bulbs... In Taiwan they are talking about banning incandescent light bulbs because it produces too much heat and not enough light (it uses too much electricity compared to florescent light bulbs). I don't know if the USA will follow suit but I know a lot of European countries has banned light bulbs. So they may become harder to get later on... |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
After building and using my Fox bender, I am convinced I am using a sledgehammer to pound a finishing nail. I will be re-examining my approach in the future. I like Bruce's example. For a lot of reasons. Mike |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
rahimiiii wrote: Speaking of light bulbs... In Taiwan they are talking about banning incandescent light bulbs because it produces too much heat and not enough light (it uses too much electricity compared to florescent light bulbs). I don't know if the USA will follow suit but I know a lot of European countries has banned light bulbs. So they may become harder to get later on... Here in the UK, incandescents have been banned from being sold...as a result all the higher wattages have been panic-bought, *sigh* the harmless incandescent..(don't get me started on this one) To add to the discussion, I would go with a blanket too. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Someone reposted a link to the Taylor side bending, now on YouTube. Not many of us will ever bend like that with those machines. What I learned was to use my electric bender to quickly do the waist bend, as an outside bend. I then sandwich up and clamp down the waist in the form bender. All that is left is making the easier bout bends. Easier because they are larger and more forgiving. I copied my bender off Jim Olson's website. His are floor models, no controls, and no phone calls allowed when bending. He bends a bunch at once I understand, many sets. I usually do one set at a time. I like the Taylor Vids because of the ingenuity of the machine builders. My goodness they are good. Incandescents rule. I've thrown away several Long Life florescents already. The quality control must get better if they expect folks to use them. Anyone know a quality brand? |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Bruce Dickey wrote: Incandescents rule. I've thrown away several Long Life florescents already. The quality control must get better if they expect folks to use them. Anyone know a quality brand? I've tried all the quality brands. Being a bit of an environmentallist, I have used "long lifers" for over ten years. Tried every brand out there and the average life span seems to be around 2 years. Because we are also encouraged to turn off a bulb when we leave the room, I don't know whether the stresses from expansion/contration shortens the lifespan. I know they are more "polluting" than an incandescant in terms of breaking down to recycle (contains mercury), but I digress. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
Sam Price wrote: Bruce Dickey wrote: Incandescents rule. I've thrown away several Long Life florescents already. The quality control must get better if they expect folks to use them. Anyone know a quality brand? I've tried all the quality brands. Being a bit of an environmentallist, I have used "long lifers" for over ten years. Tried every brand out there and the average life span seems to be around 2 years. Because we are also encouraged to turn off a bulb when we leave the room, I don't know whether the stresses from expansion/contration shortens the lifespan. I know they are more "polluting" than an incandescant in terms of breaking down to recycle (contains mercury), but I digress. I wished I could remember who and where I read a take on the incandescent bulb vs. the new low power consumption neon’s. But I do recall the article stated that the energy use to dispose of the new bulbs for one household in a way to prevent free loss of mercury (recycling) was at best 3 times that of the energy savings of that said house hold. This did not account for the re-claimed mercury and neon gasses. there is even nore to the story for this push to change over and not so much to do with energy savings either. danged if we do danged if we don't |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
MichaelP wrote: I wished I could remember who and where I read a take on the incandescent bulb vs. the new low power consumption neon’s. But I do recall the article stated that the energy use to dispose of the new bulbs for one household in a way to prevent free loss of mercury (recycling) was at best 3 times that of the energy savings of that said house hold. This did not account for the re-claimed mercury and neon gasses. there is even nore to the story for this push to change over and not so much to do with energy savings either. danged if we do danged if we don't Michael, I can vouch for what you have said; I have read similar articles. The only benefit of these bulbs is that the consumer saves money on electricty. Remember these bulbs were totally saturating the market before the arrival of contemporary thought on energy use of manufacture/recycling vs. lifetime useage. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heat Blanket or Light Bulbs? |
They also make crappy light! I don't mind some fluorescent light, but all fluorescent is bad on the eyes. The flicker, which you don't really see, makes your eyes very tired. Fill light with incandescent is a good idea. |
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