Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Shell rosette space too small

1. Is there an easy way of applying the shellac or lacquer (out of a can perhaps?) that doesn't required making up some shellac?

2. My instruments are finished with waterbase lacquer. It scares me that the shellac or lacquer will penetrate too deeply and I won't be able to completely sand it off and this will cause my finish to apply with obvious flaws. Anyway, is that a problem?

This was a practice piece of wood (One of the few things I've learned the hard way) so My instruments are finished with waterbase lacquer. It scares me that the shellac or lacquer will penetrate too deeply and I won't be able to completely sand it off and this will cause my finish to apply with obvious flaws. (I had a bad experience not completely getting the glue off of some purfling that I didn't see until I had begun spraying the finish. It turned into a nightmare.) Anyway, is that a problem?

Bill

Thanks Peter, Jimmy and Chris.
You have inspired me. I think I'll give it a go.

Bill

PS - Should I use the clear Zinsser shellac or the Zinsser Seal Coat?

Author:	Bill Higgs [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Shell rosette space too small
OK, I am attempting to make my first shell rosette and have run into a little problem. The shell rosette itself is 1\8" (0.125). I used two 0.063" Teflon spacing strips to separate the inside and outside bwb. I guess the bwb expanded during gluing ( I used LMI white glue) because the shell does not have enough room to fit between the two bwb. Does this sound right? If so, if I use a 0.063" and a 0.079" teflon strip together to space next time --- will that be about right or will that allow too much room? Thanks, Bill

Author:	peterm [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
That is possible. The purfling strips tend to swell up a bit as they absorb glue and then change the area to inlay. What I do is, I don't use a Teflon strip at all but inlay the shell and the purfling at the same time. You may want to seal the channel with shellac or a vinyl sealer and after it dries you can inlay the whole rosette and then flood with CA. Thats how I do mine...

Author:	Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
Bill, a little careful sanding of your pearl pieces should enable them to slip right in. You probably did have some swelling, but not so much that your pearl is unusable. Take it easy, go as slowly as you need, and you should be fine. It's a plus that your purfling has black outer and inner bands. That will hide minute discrepancies. Steve

Author:	Bill Higgs [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
Thanks Peter and Steve. This was a practice piece of wood (One of the few things I've learned the hard way) so nothing has been lost. Peter, I've considered the method you use and really like it. Could you or someone help with a couple of questions? 1. Is there an easy way of applying the shellac or lacquer (out of a can perhaps?) that doesn't required making up some shellac? 2. My instruments are finished with waterbase lacquer. It scares me that the shellac or lacquer will penetrate too deeply and I won't be able to completely sand it off and this will cause my finish to apply with obvious flaws. (I had a bad experience not completely getting the glue off of some purfling that I didn't see until I had begun spraying the finish. It turned into a nightmare.) Anyway, is that a problem? Thanks, Bill

Author:	peterm [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
mandodiddle wrote: 1. Is there an easy way of applying the shellac or lacquer (out of a can perhaps?) that doesn't required making up some shellac? You can use pre-mixed Bulls Eye Shellac or similar and apply with a small brush. Also, make sure you apply it around the rosette as the CA will run out a bit and seep into the grain. mandodiddle wrote: 2. My instruments are finished with waterbase lacquer. It scares me that the shellac or lacquer will penetrate too deeply and I won't be able to completely sand it off and this will cause my finish to apply with obvious flaws. Anyway, is that a problem? Not a problem. The water based lacquer will adhere to the shellac and cause no problems. You can also use the shellac to seal the whole top. But you really just need to sand the surface lightly after the CA has dried. Good Luck,

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Author:	Jimmy Caldwell [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
mandodiddle wrote: This was a practice piece of wood (One of the few things I've learned the hard way) so My instruments are finished with waterbase lacquer. It scares me that the shellac or lacquer will penetrate too deeply and I won't be able to completely sand it off and this will cause my finish to apply with obvious flaws. (I had a bad experience not completely getting the glue off of some purfling that I didn't see until I had begun spraying the finish. It turned into a nightmare.) Anyway, is that a problem? Bill Bill, Neither shellac nor lacquer penetrate the wood and will sand right off. IMO, sealing the rosette channel, dry fitting the entire rosette and then using thin CA is the easiest way to get a quality job. Good luck.

Author:	Chris Paulick [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
I agree with the others. Place the shell and purfling at the same time and CA it. If you can inlay the teflon with the purfling then there's no reason you can't put the shell in there. If you dry fit it first and it is tight then you can open up the channel some to fit it. If you look in the tutorials at my ablam cutting jig you will see at the end of the video where I have a section of the rosette fitted with the purfling and shell. I shellac the whole top as it helps to keep it clean when I'm working on it. Then after I finished the rosette I run it through the thickness sander to level the rosette and remove the shellac or in my case seedlac. Here's a close up of the finished rosette as you can see the seedlac is gone. You might want to also think about making yourself one of my jigs as you can cut your shell to the radius of your choice and don't have to crack the ablam pieces to fit your rosette curve if it doesn't match. I hope it does because 1/8" is pretty hard to crack.

Author:	Bill Higgs [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
Thanks Peter, Jimmy and Chris. You have inspired me. I think I'll give it a go. Bill PS - Should I use the clear Zinsser shellac or the Zinsser Seal Coat?

Author:	peterm [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
mandodiddle wrote: Thanks Peter, Jimmy and Chris. You have inspired me. I think I'll give it a go. Bill PS - Should I use the clear Zinsser shellac or the Zinsser Seal Coat? Seal coat will do fine.

Author:	Rod True [ Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
The seal coat is waxfree, the traditional finish is not. Get the seal coat.

Author:	Bill Higgs [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Shell rosette space too small
Thanks again, here I go!

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