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I'm building a guitar for a friend's son for a Christmas. The boy is nine years old so I need to make this a small insturment. However, I would prefer not to make a toy. I'd like this to big enough so he can still play it as he grows.
I have a plan for a L-OO, is it small enough for a 9 year old? I drew up my own plan last night that might be to small for an adult. Here are the specs:
23" scale
Joined at 14th fret
1 5/8" nut
2 3/16 spacing at the bridge
18 1/4" long
10" upper bout
8" waist
14" lower bout
3 1/4" deep at heel
3 7/8" deep at tail

Am I on the right track here? What would you change?

Thanks,
Steve

I'm in the same situation, making guitars for my daughters. They are still too small for a "full size" guitar, but I wanted a "real" small guitar that they can grow with. I went with the Torres SE117 as a model to inspire me.

I'm also interested in the L-00, and have put its template up against the classical templates that I use. Its basically the same size as a classical, just shifting the curves around a little.

Have you thought of something like a Martin 0, or a 1, size?

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

9 years old, blink your eyes and he is 14. 1 5/8 nut is too small!!!!!!!!. It may be great at 9 but it will be too narrow in just a couple very short years. 1 11/16" is ok. That single 1/16' make a huge difference in string spacing. 1 3/4 is even better. The body size and scale is not a big issue to me. If you want to make a parlor size great. That is fine. No need to make a 9 year old size guitar because he will be 10 tomorrow and 15 the day after. This instrument should be for a life time not for a snapshot of time.

I built a guitar based on the Stella body style for a friend to teach his daughters to play. The dimensions were similar to yours (UB 9.125, Waist 7.375, LB 13.25, Height 17.875, scale 22.875 with 12 fret neck). His girls are 12 and 9 and very petite. It fits the 12yr old well, but it's big on the 9yr old. So, he might have to grow into it for a few months. Lastly, it's not a toy. I'm building another for myself and have gotten very good feedback from adults who have played the original. Oh, and I agree with Michael about string spacing. I also went with a 12" radius fretboard rather than a 16 for easier barre chords.

compared to hd28


with 9yr old

Part of the size problem can be overcome by encouraging the new student to learn and play in the higher positions. Then, as far as skill and knowledge of the fingerboard as they grow older, they will be light years ahead of most of us who concentrate on the first postion.

Steve, I have a 1940's Stella student guitar at the shop. I can bring it by if you want to trace it out. They are actually pretty nice guitars..but lack quality materials. I have sold hundreds of these to students in the 10-15 age range. None had problems using them. They used to be plentiful...and cheap. Now they are just cheap!!

Joe

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Joe

If I were doing this, I'd go with body dimensions about like what you listed. I would go with a 1 11/16" or 1 3/4" nut. I wouldn't shorten the scale length so much - I'd probably go somewhere around 24.5" - but I would probably make the neck join at the 12th for both ergonomics and sound. I'd consider a bevel on the body for the right arm to rest on.

I think kids are better at adapting to things that are less than ideal for them than we often give them credit for. Unless he's a particularly small 9-year-old, I'll bet he'll do fine on a guitar sized as you're describing, even with a standard scale length and nut width. And, of course, he'll grow into it, rather than grow out of it, which could be a bummer.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

When I was a kid and started playing guitar, my parents bought one for me. To say that it was a piece of crap would be generous. It was torture to play! So I never practiced, much. I dropped playing guitar for 10 years. I finally came back to it.

Whatever you do, focus on playability. Their little hands don't have a lot of strength, so pressing down the strings is an issue. We want them to be encouraged to continue to play into their adulthood. Great tone and detail work won't cut it if they feel like its torture to play it.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

I too think a more "grownup" guitar would be the way to go. Two years ago I built a size 5 terz for my kids, mostly my daughter who was 9 at the time. It was a year before she got interested in guitar, but never plays the terz. She wants to play the "real" guitar, my OM, and is planning for us to build her own OM next year, in koa, mahogany neck, and right now she's picking out binding and purfling. A daddy-do, sort of like a honey-do. I'm humoring her - it should be fun.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Personally I'd consider the Size 5. Ante's plans are typically over braced, so just lighten them up. It's just a joy to hold and play. Very small, but it's the one that everyone picks up first when they see a line up of my instruments, and the one they keep coming back to.

Perhaps you have to be older to appreciate what a lovely little guitar they really are.

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Allen R. McFarlen
Barron River Guitars & Ukuleles
Facebook
Cairns, Australia

Thanks so much for all the answers. It seems we're all in agreement on the don't build a toy thing. I was mainly concerned about the scale length and nut width. I like Todd's idea of 24 1/2" scale as it will put the bridge right in the center of the lower bout.

I do have a question about the 12 fret setup, as all my plans are 14 fret so I have no reference point here. Do I move the sound hole down to retain a 19 or 20 fret fret board or just make a 17 or 18 fret board? Or should I lengthen the upper bout section of the body?

Thanks again for your help.

Steve

On most guitars with the neck/body joint at the 12th fret, there are the usual 19 or 20 frets, and the sound hole is positioned lower on the body. Depending on the shape, it might fall right in line with the waist. I like to keep it on the higher side, though. There are a few things that can be manipulated to achieve that: 1) The body shape, 2) Stop the fretboard at the 19th or even the 18th, 3) Have the fretboard extend over the top of the hole a bit, 4) Make an oval hole, 5) Make a smaller hole and add a side sound hole, 6) "Offset" the main sound hole. Or, don't put a hole in the top at all and just use a large side sound hole.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Well here is what I came up with using every ones suggestions. The body dimensions are the same except it's a little longer at 18 1/2". This is now a 12 fret 24 3/4" scale with a 1 3/4" nut. The bracing is copied from a Martin 2 1/2 size that I saw on Frank Fords site.
I will be meeting with Joe (JRE) to see a Stella some time this week. I hear good tings about the sound of those guitars and I'll make a copy of that bracing pattern.
Any other suggestions?

Steve

Looks good. I'll let you take the Stella for as long as you need. The problem with some of the later Stella's was the plywood they used to make them from. The earlier ones seem to sound much better than the later ones and may have had a solid top. Regardless of the sound, the size is nice and it certainly can be used as a template for a nice build. I am actually thinking of making an archtop travel guitar that size....or the size of your drawing.... . So I may want to bend up some sides at your place..he he he.

Call me this week and I will bring the stella to work with me. And when your done with this build, maybe I could borrow the forms?

Ciao!

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Joe