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| Hide glue Tip http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24437 |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hide glue Tip |
Hi Guys I glued the braces on #4 and 5 guitars with hide glue and found it a bit of a pain in the butt but liked the results. The problem for me was the glue gelling to quick even with pre heating the parts. My basement shop is a little cool for hide glue so I thought I needed more heat. In the auto plant I worked before retirement they used to use IR heat lamps in sheet metal boxes to keep rubber grommets warm to ease their insertion. I decided that it might help on my gobar deck and it really helps. I have a 275 watt IR floodlamp in a clip on socket that I clipped to the top of the deck and focused the lamp on the area I was gluing next. I left the braces laying under the lamp while I waited for the warmth. I had plenty of time to position the brace place the gobars and clean up the glue squeeze out before the glue would gel. It works so good that I am going to buy a second lamp so the parts will heat up quicker I have never been real good at waiting. I worked up a bit of a sweat as it is much warmer than I am used to. Fred |
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| Author: | woody b [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
I've got a heat lamp aimed at my top, and braces like a restaurant uses to keep food warm. I guess it might be an IR lamp, I don't know what the technology is. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
I use a IR lamp. I also have a heating blanket . I find the lamp works well for me. I use a brush and get on the top asap. When I use HHG I don't want anyone near me. It is a dance. Plan your layout and work plan. I use 160 on the pot and heat the parts where they are almost too hot to handle. I use a go bar and find it works the best for me |
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| Author: | Frei [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
How much time does a heat lamp buy? I usually do one brace at a time, I did the top with really no problem. I use a count-down timer so I know at 1:20 I have '20'seconds or whatever the time is. 20 or 30 more seconds would be nice. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
As John said you can lay your heating blanket out on the workbench too and set it for around 150 and put the braces/bridges/bridgeplates on it. That's what I've been doing lately. |
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| Author: | ChuckH [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
Good idea John using the heat blanket. I find I have ample time gluing on braces anyway. What I don't have tons of time doing is gluing the top or back on and I'm going to try the heat lamps on that. |
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| Author: | Mike Franks [ Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
What effect does the heating of the parts have on the moisture content of the wood. I have found that using heat even for short periods of time can wreck havoc on the moisture content and cause temporary dimensional changes until the wood readjusts to the RH of the workshop. Is it possible that using heat on the braces and plates could contribute to stresses being built into the instrument? Mike Franks http://www.mjfranksguitar.com |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
Good tip Fred, I'm going to try that. I've been using a heat gun which works ok but is a pain to juggle around during a glueup. |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
Thanks Fred! - I'm also a bit tired of using the heat gun - it's either ineffective, or close to scorching the wood (well, I guess it is marketed as a paint stripper  )I'll get an IR lamp - tired of working so fast I feel like I'm going to trip over something and knock the guitar off the bench. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
I am going to get a second lamp to get a more even and faster heat coverage so the actual time the parts are under the lamp is reduced. I had the lamp on a back for about 1 hour yesterday and saw no changes in the wood after the back was removed from the gobar deck and dish. A side effect is the heat lamp made my sore shoulder feel real good. I hated the heat gun so that was why I looked to change to something safer. I think heat gun preheating will be needed to glue on a top or back but it sure helps on bracing. Fred |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
Mike Franks wrote: What effect does the heating of the parts have on the moisture content of the wood. I have found that using heat even for short periods of time can wreck havoc on the moisture content and cause temporary dimensional changes until the wood readjusts to the RH of the workshop. Is it possible that using heat on the braces and plates could contribute to stresses being built into the instrument? Mike Franks http://www.mjfranksguitar.com I'm with Frank on this one . What's the use of keeping your tonewood at an ideal RH , then performing your glueing operation at that ideal RH only to alter that RH enormously with a heatgun/lamps/microwave or whatever. Seems to me all the preparation of having ideal RH both in wood and atmosphere ,has gone out the window. Obviously thinner woods ( soundboards etc. , ) reacting faster to RH change than thicker pieces ( bridges etc). I've noted how quickly an uninstalled soundboard can move to a change in humidity. It's almost instant. I much prefer glueing when the shop is warm but with RH still within range |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
The back I glued up yesterday checks out to the exact radius after sitting on the shelf for a day and getting back to shop humidity. I agree with Tod the water in the glue and what we wipe up the squeeze out with probably affects the wood much more than the IR lamp or a heat gun. The nice thing with the IR is it gently brings the whole area up to temperature so everything gets the same amount of temperature change where with the heat gun I was quickly heating smaller areas to a higher temperature so the heat would remain while I got the parts in place. Fred |
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| Author: | george wilson [ Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
Be careful you don't get things too hot. A guitar top I warmed too much sucked right apart in about 2" of the center seam,and messed the top up. |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hide glue Tip |
george wilson wrote: Be careful you don't get things too hot. A guitar top I warmed too much sucked right apart in about 2" of the center seam,and messed the top up. Thanks for posting that experience George . It's just the sort of wood reaction I was referring to in my above post. |
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