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| A bracing question. http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26199 |
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| Author: | James A. [ Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A bracing question. |
I am working on my first build, and I have to say this is such a great hobby. I am loving every second of it. I am currently using the kinkead (kinkade) book and plans to build an OM. I am shaping the braces on the top and back right now. A little while ago I heard someone saying they thought the Kinkade guitar might be overbraced or overbuilt or something like that. Does anyone have any experience here? I want to do the proper shaping now and not after the box is closed in. 
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| Author: | James A. [ Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
Todd, Although not the answer I was hoping for, I am sure you are right. With that said, is there really not a way for a first timer to achieve a good sounding guitar by more than just happenstance or without the help of an experienced builder? |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
If you can accurately follow a plan and have good execution of your joints, you should end up with a good sounding guitar. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
James A. wrote: Todd, Although not the answer I was hoping for, I am sure you are right. With that said, is there really not a way for a first timer to achieve a good sounding guitar by more than just happenstance or without the help of an experienced builder? Hi. First off, let me say I took a guitar building course first with an top-notch luthier, 4 participants, 4 quite different resulting guitars. In a way I agree with the other comments,  but I do know how you feel. He does say in his book that he likes a bright sounding guitar, which will mellow with age, and bracing can be adjusted, but to wait for a year at least. With a 4" soundhole, access is easy, even for my ham shanks! Remember too that the bracing is a small percentange of top weight (15%?) Recommended top thickness at 3mm is right at the top end for good sitka, and mine was stiff!. I ended up with a bright sound and "forever" sustain, but lightish in the bass. Good fingerpicker, but not a "cannon". First I just wanted to make a guitar, and check my methods and jigs. etc worked OK. I used ebay woods mostly for the first, but stocked up a little better stuff to let it settle in my shop. for future projects. I worked to the same plans you are using, as written, and ended up with a fine sounding guitar. Perhaps not "my" or "your" sound but fine enough. Based on my impressions of that guitar, now I am working on nos 2 and 3, and bracing I have thinned about 10-15% in width to try, and am working with different flexibility of tops, one more flexible, heavier braced (in the carving of section only), one stiffer, lighter bracing (again in carving only). I am hopefully working towards "my" idea of a great sounding guitar. Fit is a little better with a little more experience so far, finish we will see. Softly, softly, cathchee monkey.. To be honest I have found impatience does not produce better results, but you are free to do as you want of course. And the advice from the old timers here is the best I have found anywhere. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
James A. wrote: Todd, Although not the answer I was hoping for, I am sure you are right. With that said, is there really not a way for a first timer to achieve a good sounding guitar by more than just happenstance or without the help of an experienced builder? There is nothing wrong with wanting your first to sound killer and this is not impossible to do either. Some folks build guitars to play them... not just to learn how to build a guitar. If you follow Michael Payne's excellent OM plan (you can get these at Stew-Mac) your guitar will not be over braced and IMHO you will have a guitar that sounds as good as a $2,000 guitar. The Stew-Mac dread plan also produces a great sounding guitar if built exactly to the plan. Neither of these two plans/guitars are over-braced in my opinion. I have no knowledge of the Kinkade plan so I can't comment. But I have used the Antes OM plan from LMI and that one is way over-braced IMHO.... Good luck and most importantly - have fun! |
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| Author: | ChuckB [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
Another angle to look at this, and I believe is Kinkeads' philosophy if I remember corrrectly, is that it is better to slightly over brace (especially for the beginner builder) and later reach inside and shave the braves if needed. If you under brace the top and it starts to cave in after 6 months, you'll have to remove the top and rebrace. That's much more difficult than reaching inside and shaving braces. I will say, from my experience (only 8 guitars), that the first few I built, I had to reach inside and shave some. It is a great learning experience getting direct feedback from removing material. That said, if your guitar does not have the response, tone, or power you are looking for after you first string it up, give it some time to open up before you go inside. And, at the same time, keep up your studying, reading, and corresponding on here (OLF) to learn from the more experienced builders,, like I do. Chuck |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
I agree with all the previous comments. I've built seven so far, and consider myself still on the steep part of the learning curve, if you get my meaning. I've got a lot to learn, and am focused on making the current one better than the last. So far, I'm.....mostly.... achieving that objective  I also built my first guitar using Kincade's book, and I think it's a great book for a first time builder - at least it was great for me, enabling me to get through the entire process without getting so deep that I was lost or discouraged with lack of progress. That said, the scalloping/bracing question also was something I struggled with. I craved getting started on the scalloping process. If you'd like to get a bit more involved with influencing the tone that the guitar will produce, through scalloping - you might take a look at the following article by Dana Bourgeois http://www.pantheonguitars.com/voicing.htm While one of many approaches, I found it to be very interesting, and on the bright side (no pun intended) you'll be listening to the sounds your top makes as you scallop a bit. The risk is, especially for the first time builder, you overscallop, and the guitar implodes after a month with strings on it. Caveat emptor! |
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| Author: | James A. [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
Wow, some really wonderful advice from everyone. Thank you. I am going to stick with the Kinkade bracing plans. I may shape them a little more, slightly more scallop, etc. but that is about it. Thanks for the great advice. Greatly appreciated. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A bracing question. |
I have built the Kinkade 000. It is not really over braced per say but it is built with a tight lower end After 2 years I went back and shaved some width of the tone bars. I did this through the sound hole a little at a time with a finger plane. But I would be amiss to tell you to do so at this point. On your first guitars; (notice I did not say guitar and in singular) you want to follow proven plans and not deviate. This is important to your skill development. If you jump off and start deviating away from the proven plans your chance of a dud is far greater. Take notes all the way through the build pay attention to brace stiffness top thickness. But build your first couple of guitars to the plans. Build your next build to a different set of plans. Then you will have a start for a basis of comparison. Right now you do not have the knowledge to make informed decision on alterations. I assure you; you will be pleased by following the plans. Next time you might try my OM (OLF-OM) or my Small Jumbo (OLF SJ) both available at Stewart McDonald as my good friend Hesh mentioned. PS A tiny amount of over scalloping can be dagerous to tone and responsivness. |
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