HHG tastes awful without salt....
When you think about it for a while...it still tastes awful even with the salt. 
Tom
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| Titebonding Bridges http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26487 |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Titebonding Bridges |
In another post, two builders warned against using Titebond for gluing bridges. I first used Titebond to glue the bridge on my second guitar (early 1979). Apparently, I'm doing something wrong. That guitar has been tuned to concert pitch for the past 35 years and the bridge hasn't crept a bit. And none of the subsequent guitars' bridges (or fretboards) that I've built have moved. I think one needs to make the distinction between original T/bond, #2 & #3. From what I understand, Titebond 2 is the one to avoid if the joint will be under constant load. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Well there you go. Success comes in many forms. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Martin, Taylor, and I'm sure many others have glued 100's of 1000's of bridges on with Titebond. I use HHG. I don't even have any titebond (or any other bottle glue) in my shop. If I was going to use bottled glue it would be titebond. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Yes indeed lots of bridges have been glued with Titebond and I certainly have done it too. But.... I have also seen close-up and personal in the repair shop a few guitars where you can see the bridge creeping and plowing the finish up in front of it not unlike plowing a farmer's field. I've never seen a bridge creep if it was glued on with HHG so that's what I use for bridge glues. Jsmith yes that's an important distinction and Titebond original seems to be the glue for guitar building but not everyone is going to wanna use it for gluing bridges. Fish glue has worked good for me too with bridge glues. |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Good points all. Thank you. |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Actually, I've been thinking about going to fish glue for bridges. I already use it for a lot of other applications on the guitar. I especially like the fact you can use it at room temp, hence don't have to be in as much of a hurry as with hide. I imagine it's a good idea to give it a greater amount of clamp time with bridges, however. Probably a full 24 hrs? |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Hesh wrote: But.... I have also seen close-up and personal in the repair shop a few guitars where you can see the bridge creeping and plowing the finish up in front of it not unlike plowing a farmer's field. Actually that's the sign of a guitar that's been subjected to too much heat under string tension (like a car trunk, or a black case left in the sun on a hot day). TB1 does not cold creep at the level of stress it is subjected on a guitar, at least not at normal temps. HHG does not release easily with heat alone, if at all, it needs moisture. If I remember Frank Ford's test with TB1 and HHG glued joints in his oven, the wood chared before the HHG joint let go. I don't know if fish glue is good for a bridge, I don't use it, but you can mix 1:1 HHG with bottled hide glue to get more open time. That's what I use to glue linings and plates to the rim. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Open time on a bridge shouldn't be an issue with HHG. It's really easy to heat the bridge to 120F or so. The bridge really holds heat well so this gives you a long time to get it clamped. I've been told to just hold the bridge for ~5 minutes, and then let it sit for a while before stringing, but I still use clamps. FWIW, I glue my linings in with HHG, in ~10" pieces. I fit the ends so it looks like one piece. The kerfs make this easy. For gluing the plates to the rims I add 10% salt to my HHG mix. |
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| Author: | mhammond [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Woody: I don't mean to hijack the thread but---- What does the salt do to HHG? Mike |
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| Author: | Blain [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
To the best of my knowledge Collings Guitars here in Austin is using Tightbond for everything. And they seem to be having success with it for the most part. Of course I also think they quit building with Cedar topped guitars because their bridges weren't holding very well on cedar, but seems to be doing fine on their spruce guitars. |
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| Author: | Jim_H [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
I recently toured the Collings factory and can confirm that they are in fact using Titebond for the majority of the assembly processes I saw. Bindings being the one exception, but I can't recall what they were gluing bindings with... |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
mhammond wrote: Woody: I don't mean to hijack the thread but---- What does the salt do to HHG? Mike Adding salt extends the open time by lowering the temperature it jels at. It probably weakens it a little but I tested it several times. I only use it from gluing the top and back to the rims. I mix 10 grams dry glue, 15 grams water, and 2.5 grams salt. It jels around 80 degrees instead of 95, like a "normal" mix. Urea is what's usually used to lower the jel temperature. I've recently found a source for urea, I'll post about it if it works out after testing. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
Old Brown Glue is urea laced HHG. It has enough urea in it to keep it liquid to around 72*. Below that it gels in the bottle, but can be warmed. I have tried it, and find that the urea changes the properties of the glue. When dry in air, not in a joint, it remains flexible, instead of drying hard like pure HHG. I don't know if this changes over long periods, but the stuff I dried stayed flexible like rubber for weeks, in the open air. I decided that it's only use would be for marquetry or something like that. I don't want anything that rubbery holding parts together on a guitar. OBG is a pure product, unlike Titebond Liquid Hide Glue, which has all kinds of stabilizers in it to keep it from spoiling in the bottle. All those chemicals change the properties even more. |
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| Author: | ChuckG [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
I've had the best success with Titebond Original when I thoroughly clean the bridge area on the top with naptha and clean the under side of the bridge with acetone before gluing and then take great care not to touch either surface with my fingers after cleaning. As stated before, the contour of the bottom of the bridge needs to match the top perfectly (or very close) and I leave it clamped tightly for 24 hours. Chuck |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
WaddyThomson wrote: Old Brown Glue is urea laced HHG. It has enough urea in it to keep it liquid to around 72*. Below that it gels in the bottle, but can be warmed. I have tried it, and find that the urea changes the properties of the glue................................... I've never used old brown glue, but I suspect a BIG problem with it would be shelf life. I would suspect it to be a month or less, unless it's kept frozen. Again, I've never used it. I've got some urea, and I'm going to experiment some. Added: FWIW, if you want some urea to experiment with go to a truck stop and get some diesel exhaust fluid. It's 32.5% urea, and 67.5% water. "Diesel exhaust fluid" is used in the emission systems on diesels built after Dec 31 2009, (in case anyone wondered. ) |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
OBG has a 1 year shelf life, IIRC. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Titebonding Bridges |
HHG tastes awful without salt.... When you think about it for a while...it still tastes awful even with the salt. Tom |
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