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Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
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Author:  Phillip Patton [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
I just bought 3 gallons for $80.25 including tax. I've used it before and I know it's good stuff. Excellent price. :D

Not every S-W store has it. You have to find a store that carries "Commercial Coatings" I think they called it.
Author:  jackwilliams [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
I have used SW lacquer in years past, and the downsides I experienced was that it yellowed and cracked ( cold checked), in some instances... more reasonably priced than lacquers specifically designed for musical instruments.
Author:  Phillip Patton [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
jackwilliams wrote:
I have used SW lacquer in years past, and the downsides I experienced was that it yellowed and cracked ( cold checked), in some instances... more reasonably priced than lacquers specifically designed for musical instruments.


Hmmm. I hope they've improved the formula since you used it. ;)
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
There is generally a reason why guitar builders use lacquers and other finishing materials designed for instruments rather than cheaper, more readily available substitutes! Most of the time it's because other finishes fall short in the long run.
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
At one time Sherwin Williams were the go to people for this type of finish.I'm talking back in the 70's. Had the cold checking problems also and then folks found out that SW had changed thier formula..........!! Not sure about thier new stuff...?? Good luck.
Tom
Author:  Phillip Patton [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
WaddyThomson wrote:
There is generally a reason why guitar builders use lacquers and other finishing materials designed for instruments rather than cheaper, more readily available substitutes! Most of the time it's because other finishes fall short in the long run.



I'm not sure it's that much cheaper. For someone who doesn't have an account with them, it costs $58 per gallon.

Maybe I'll save this stuff for cheaper instruments. Who makes the best (but still reasonably priced) instrument lacquer?
Author:  Phillip Patton [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
How long does it take for the cold checking to show up? Is it years down the road? Months, weeks, days?
Author:  David LaPlante [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
Indeed years ago this was THE stuff, Martin used it and the stock number of the formula they used was the Water White T-75-C10.
They made lots of different lacquers for clear coating as well as a complete line of pigmented lacquers.
Last year I did one lacquer finish and because I still had old Sherwin Williams flatting agent and thinner (this stuff does not go bad) I used some of their new stuff. No problems at all, but it was hard to tell how it differed from my old favorite.

Philip, cold checking happens when lacquer is brittle and when the wood underneath expands quickly, say, if you left your guitar out in the cold and brought it quickly into a warm room. It can happen in the blink of an eye. The thicker the lacquer is applied the more prone it is to this though I'm not sure that I would want a formulation that's so flexible it would be immune to this type of mishandling.
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
Just picked up two gals from Mohawk this morning. I really like their instrument lacquer! I paid $38.50/gal (before the 12% tax) Canadian which is about as cheap as it comes up here.

I've not tried the Sherwin Williams.
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
Phillip: Back in the 70's again, on one very cold winter night I travelled to a friends house,left my guitar housed in it's case in the car. I was in the house about an hour IIRC when I went out and retrevied the guitar. Went in the house and open the case and right before my eyes the guitar was hazed with cracks. This on a guitar that did not have a crack in the finish when I left home.That guitar was finished in Sherwin Williams nitro.My stupid fault for doing what I did,but back then I didn't know any better.
Tom
Author:  bluescreek [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
thermal shock will crack just about any lacquer. The only lacquer I know of that seems to check all on its own is Deft. This is not for guitars and is strictly a furniture item but I know many beginners , even myself , have used it. Once you go to a high end finish you will soon avoid Home Depot and Lowes for luthier finish supplies .
Author:  Phillip Patton [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
Well, I think I'll do a "check check" before I use it on anything important. How long should the lacquer be cured before I try to make it crack?

Thanks for all the input, guys, even though I don't feel like I found such a good deal anymore. :(
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
Well, can't you take it back???
Author:  John Arnold [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
S-W sells many different lacquer formulas. Ted Davis seemed to have good success with the Moisture Resistant Lacquer. I am going to try it when I finish the guitars he left when he died.
I have used the Mohawk Classic Instrument Lacquer, and IMHO, it is too soft. On my last project, I mixed it 50/50 with their piano lacquer, and it is a bit harder, but still not to my liking. It may just be that I don't like nitro, especially they way they load it with plasticizers these days. My finish of choice is automotive acrylic lacquer. Nice and hard, and never a cold check.
Author:  Phillip Patton [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
John Arnold wrote:
S-W sells many different lacquer formulas. Ted Davis seemed to have good success with the Moisture Resistant Lacquer. I am going to try it when I finish the guitars he left when he died.
I have used the Mohawk Classic Instrument Lacquer, and IMHO, it is too soft. On my last project, I mixed it 50/50 with their piano lacquer, and it is a bit harder, but still not to my liking. It may just be that I don't like nitro, especially they way they load it with plasticizers these days. My finish of choice is automotive acrylic lacquer. Nice and hard, and never a cold check.


The Moisture Resistant Lacquer is what I got. So there may be hope? [:Y:]
Author:  David LaPlante [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
Yes, this is what I used on my last go round: T70-C20 .
No problems.
Author:  Phillip Patton [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
David LaPlante wrote:
Yes, this is what I used on my last go round: T70-C20 .
No problems.



That's what I have. Have you exposed it to conditions which would cause checking?
Author:  David LaPlante [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
No I haven't, but as was prevously stated here, given the right conditions checking can occur. I consider those conditions a form of mishandling. Something which is very difficult to anticipate or guard against.
Your best bet to prevent checking is to keep your finish at around 5 mil. (.005")
Making a "checkproof" lacquer would most likely rob it of the properties that contribute to a good musical instrument.
Author:  Mike Baker [ Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone get their lacquer from Sherwin Williams?
David LaPlante wrote:
No I haven't, but as was prevously stated here, given the right conditions checking can occur. I consider those conditions a form of mishandling. Something which is very difficult to anticipate or guard against.
Your best bet to prevent checking is to keep your finish at around 5 mil. (.005")
Making a "checkproof" lacquer would most likely rob it of the properties that contribute to a good musical instrument.


I haven't got the experience that most on this thread do, but I'm with David on this one.
Most people who seek out lacquer finished guitars understand that it requires certain types of handling. Just like nitro reacts to leather,and certain types of materials commonly found on some guitar stands can mark or disfigure it.
If I were selling nitro finished guitars, cold checking as well as these other factors would be something I'd make sure the customer knew about. Nor would I warrantee any of this. It's the nature of this type of finish, and I'm not sure I'd want all the "plasticizers" and other stuff designed to avoid these problems. Just MHO.
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