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Shelf Life of EM6000?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=30034		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  CharlieT [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Shelf Life of EM6000?
Based on the responses in the water based lacquer thread, it sounds like EM6000 is a popular choice. It's what I bought when I got started on my first build. Unfortunately, it has taken a little longer than I planned and now my EM6000 is about 20 months old...the stamp on the container is 3/09. oops_sign Anyone know what the shelf life is for EM6000? I'm almost ready to begin finishing and am trying to decide whether to use what I have or buy some fresh.

TIA
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
I don't have your answer but if you e-mail Grafted Coatings they're usually quick to respond.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Shelf Life of EM6000?
I hear that Target is running a sale again... Stock up!!
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Have you opened the can yet?
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
meddlingfool - that's a good idea, I will shoot them an e-mail.

Mike - thanks for the heads up. If it turns out I can't use what I have, I may take advantage of that sale.

Rod - I just opened it for the first time last week to have a look. It appeared a translucent milky-white, which I assume will go away when I stir it.
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
I bought a gallon about 14 months ago and am still using it. So far I've finished 4 guitars with it and it still seems to be good. Good adhesion, dries quickly and hardens well over a couple of weeks time. Get's even harder after about 6 weeks. I think Jeff Weiss at Target said about 18 mo. shelf life if I remember correctly. The key is storing it in a cool dark place even though the container is black plastic. The more I use it, the better my technique gets. [:Y:]
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Thanks for the reply, Bill. That's good to hear!

Mine has been kept at room temp and wasn't opened until just recently. I just e-mailed Target with my question and I'll let you know what they say. 8-)
Author:  meddlingfool [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Oops...
I must learn to read more carefully. I'm sure you'll get a better answer out of Target than from Grafted Coatings. Ha ha!
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
meddlingfool wrote:
Oops...
I must learn to read more carefully. I'm sure you'll get a better answer out of Target than from Grafted Coatings. Ha ha!


No worries - I knew what you meant. ;)
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Target got right back to me with the below information. [:Y:] Thought I might share it here in case someone else might benefit from it......


Dear Charles,

Indicators of expired material are abnormal odor and a pinkish color.

If these indicators are not seen, we suggest you sample the product before using it on any project. You should look for fisheyes and leveling issues to see if the viscosity has changed.

If the product is not performing well, we highly recommend you use fresh material for your project.

If you have further questions, please contact our office at your convenience.

Sincerely,
Author:  Ken C [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Charlie,

I have been using EM6000 and its predecessor for about three years. Problems I find when the finish has sat around too long:

- Doesn't burn in as well. With fresh lacquer, you can shoot coats every day and not have issues with burn in. As the lacquer gets older, it seems less inclined to blend into previous layers without a little help. You'll know you have burn in problems when you start getting witness lines as you level an area.

- Film formation issues. I have run into problems with microbubbles in the finish that seem to be traceable only to finish that has been sitting around for awhile.

If you have finish that is a bit older, I'd use it only as a sealer or base coats. Make sure your last half dozen top coats are shot with fresh lacquer. Based on my experience with this stuff, I think 6 months is starting to get too old for top coats.

Ken
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Hi Ken - thanks very much for that information. It gives me some specific things to look for if I do some testing, which I hope to do over the holiday weekend. I will be brushing my finish, at least on my first build, so that may introduce some other issues and/or compound the ones you've mentioned, so I'll do some careful testing on scrap before deciding whether to use the stuff I have.

Thanks again!
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Shelf Life of EM6000?
Hey, Charlie, it's normally milky white.
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
I would think you'd be fine. If you had opened it a year ago and there was 1/2 can or something I would probably not use it. But if you've just opened it up from it's original sealing from the plant, my guess is you'll be fine. This of course is total speculation and not based on fact.

As Mike said, it's always milky white. Even after you stir it. Oh and don't shake the can or stir it vigorously, you'll create bubbles.

You'll find that it levels well, make sure you keep the surface as level as you can while you brush it on. Also, please wear a respirator too, I know it's water based but the fumes can still knock you on your butt I found.
Author:  CharlieT [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Hey, Charlie, it's normally milky white.


Whew. Thanks Mike! :D
Author:  CharlieT [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Rod True wrote:
I would think you'd be fine. If you had opened it a year ago and there was 1/2 can or something I would probably not use it. But if you've just opened it up from it's original sealing from the plant, my guess is you'll be fine. This of course is total speculation and not based on fact.

As Mike said, it's always milky white. Even after you stir it. Oh and don't shake the can or stir it vigorously, you'll create bubbles.

You'll find that it levels well, make sure you keep the surface as level as you can while you brush it on. Also, please wear a respirator too, I know it's water based but the fumes can still knock you on your butt I found.


Thanks for the input, Rod! I'm going to test it on some scrap to confirm there are no problems with it, but I'm encouraged by your post.

Oh, and I will also take your advice about the respirator. :mrgreen:
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Shelf Life of EM6000?
For those who think I'm posting way more than working in the shop, ur right, traveling for thanksgiving.

That milky color is useful for noting when u are putting it on too heavy. :) most if what I learned about this finish comes from Rod.

Mike
Author:  Rod True [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Mike O'Melia wrote:
For those who think I'm posting way more than working in the shop, ur right, traveling for thanksgiving.

That milky color is useful for noting when u are putting it on too heavy. :) most if what I learned about this finish comes from Rod.

Mike


And here I've switched back to Nitro LOL! Don't forget your hands on experience Mike, that accounts for much more than the info I've shared I'm sure.

Check on the Target forum for some advise on brushing the finish. I've never brushed on a finish before. My guess is that the lacquer should self level well, but you'll soon find out just how well.
Author:  cphanna [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Regarding the milky white color: What Mike said. And also be aware that it might look a little milky (depending on how heavily you shoot it) when it first hits your instrument. But don't freak out. It should dry water clear in very little time. As tech support suggested, test it on scrap first, and see how it goes. I'm sorry I can't comment on the other issues.
Author:  CharlieT [ Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shelf Life of EM6000?
Thanks cphanna, that's good to know.
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