Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello everyone, I'm brand new to the forum but it really looks like there is alot of good information being shared, and that's what it's all about. My question is if anyone knows where any technical data is hiding somewhere out there on the internet that explains the more technical side of acoustic guitar making. I have the woodworking prowess to make a guitar, and I have made several, though what I am really looking for is how to make an acoustis guitar sound great every time. All of my guitars with the exclusion of the first couple sound fine, and some sound great. What I need to know is how to make them all come out sounding great consistently. So, the information I'm hoping someone knows about is on things like how bridge size effects volume, what the size of the box does to the sound, the taper, the arch, how materials effect tone, the size of the soundhole...etc. Basically alot of what references like Ervin Somogyi would have to say. I am really close to buying his books, but I just want to try the question out here first, just in case loads of information like that are free on the internet. Sorry for the long one there...first post and I blew it. lol

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http://www.sixgunguitars.com

I you find out, please PM me.
Seriously, there seem to be a basically a couple of approaches, technical and instinctive.
Technically, as well as the reading material you mentioned, and anything else you can find, I would suggest have a look at Alan Carruth's posts, DVDs books and articles..
Basically he uses pure soundwaves at certain frequencies to look at the natural response of guitar plates to those frequencies, and thicknesses them and modifies the bracing to obtain certain patterns in glitter scattered on the plates. (I hope I got that right)
I have heard that he feels this gives a consistancy to his building, and he seems to be a very respected maker who has been using this method for most of his guitar making life

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Yes, all the information is out there but not organized in one spot unless you pay (e.g. the book). There are no shortcuts. Start reading the archives of this forum and others and you'll soon see who's got the goods. Al Carruth is one of them.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

Just wondering why you would expect it to be handed to you on a plate when all the rest of us have been scratching our heads over that one for years and years and years.
Slow down, read all you can and experiment slowly. Dig a little...the info is around to help you. There is no one specific answer to any of your questions and there are many different ways to build a great instrument, as many as there are different ideas about what a great instrument sounds like. There is no magic formula and instrument making is rather intuitive and holistic, not reductionist.
We all are friendly enough to help with specific questions (realize that you will get opposing answers at times), but you will have to find your questions and you will have to find and own your own tone.

Brian: When I read your post my thoughts went in the same direction as Haans and Todd. Build more guitars, study whatever you can get your hands on,build more guitars and then build more guitars.There are no easy answers,even if you have all the knowledge in your head you still have to build more guitars.Steal as much knowledge as you can where ever you can and then build more guitars. It's as simple and as hard as that. Good luck in your search.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

FWIW I think you ought to just pull the trigger on the Somogyi books. I just got them after really struggling with whether or not I could justify the cost, and the most fundamental questions I had as to how/why were answered in the first few chapters, and more keeps coming. At least get the first one, they're turning up used on Amazon all the time now. Do yourself a favor and advance your thinking by decades overnight. After 51 guitars it sure helped me...

Remember, though, the Somogyi books do not tell you how to make a great sounding guitar. They do help you form your thought process, however, and teach you a lot about how to find what works for you, through practice.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Brian , Here is a link to a site where a young, enthusiastic engineer has taken the time to gather a quantity of internet sites/ links that explain much of the technical data you are seeking:

http://www.guitarengineer.com/index_files/Page2240.htm

It is probably the most comprehensive listing gathered in one place that I have found. Along with the site links he has compiled an extensive bibliography of publications and journals that deal with the technical side of acoustics and mechanics of stringed instruments.

There is a lifetime of study there and is probably the reason that most of us are participating in this forum. To learn, share our thoughts with others and enjoy the sound, touch, smell and feel of the wood beneath our hands as it progresses from thoughts to a finished instrument. Good luck in your search and I hope that this helps.

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Peter

Thank you to everyone for the great posts and great help on my search for great guitar making info. I am too a late night internet searcher, reader, note taker, and builder. Though it was mentioned a couple times, I am not asking anyone for the keys to the city or to have anything "handed to me", rather I'm looking for technical information. I don't want to know how to brace a soundboard, I've already done that 20+ times...I want to know what the bracing does depending on what parts of it you change, etc. I hope I didn't come off as asking for what we all have been working years for, that is absolutely not the case. I just figured that a large group of instrument makers would know if things like that existed...and apparently they do in the Ervin Somogiy book, as well as some of the resources that were mentioned by others, which I am about to start pouring over. Thank you again to everyone, I hope I can be helpful to anyone who's questions I post on, and hopefully this helps clarify any odd intentions I may have conveyed in my original question. I don't intend to be a leach in this community, I intend to be a part of it.

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http://www.sixgunguitars.com

Hi Brian,

I hope I don't sound like I am bashing you but from your reply, you don't seem to convey the intentions that you have stated.

If you want to be part of discussion, and since you have braced a number of tops (20+ as quoted by yourself), I would think instead of asking a general questions, which could be easily be written as a book (a thick one), why not post your observations / experiences on your bracing instead?
Like for those guitar made by you that sounds great, what exactly did you do?
Did you have a scalloped bracing or a hyperbolic bracing?
Did you change the angle of the X-brace?
Did you have a cap on the X?
Start with all these experiences of yours and I'm sure other members would love to contribute to what you have started and everyone can learn from one another.

Sen

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Sen CL Goh
http://senguitar.blogspot.com

I've got Ervins books and they are good, but I'd start with John Mayes Voicing and Advanced Voicing DVDs then if that's not a technical enough way of working get Al Carruths Chlandi Voicing DVD I personally didn't get on with Kent Everetts DVD it just didn't fit my thinking after watching the DVDs and reading Ervins books, if your unsure of whether to get Ervins books check out the youtube vids he has it'll give you and insight into his thinking also you could buy the DVD first.

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

Thank you all again. I'm going to post a couple pick of some soundboards for a critique in a few minutes. I had an interesting thing happen while making tham that I will explain in the next post. Thanks again for the other names to look out for, I'm going to write them down so I can do some research later today.

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http://www.sixgunguitars.com

Google Howard Wright's thesis. You can download it free. If you are an engineering type, it's about the best thing out there.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

That ought to give the tekkies something to ponder for a while!
Two things (IMO)...
I try not to let Yehudi's notes penetrate my ears.
The first two complete paragraphs on page 14 about says it all for me...

Back to intuitive thinking and my tapping hammer...an end pin reamer.

You use a hammer? Some people just cant get intimate with their instruments.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hammer...my father calls that the minor adjustment tool. Classic. I downloaded that article, read the first few pages of actual content past the acknowledgements and prospectus, and I have to say I'm full. That's alot of meat there, and I cant wait to get into it further. I think there is a nice balance to be had between building to learn and studying to learn. I like to spend some of my non-building time working on the computer trying to learn better ways to build, and you all have given me loads to work with. Thanks again to everyone.

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http://www.sixgunguitars.com

The trouble with "information" on the technical aspects of the guitar is that much of it is contradictory, incorrect, or dumbed down.
The ability of the author to produce a good guitar has NO correlation on the accuracy of his theoretical writing.
And I am not going to name names.
Make your own decisions, look at sample chapters if available before purchasing.

Aww, you know what I mean, Waddy...
Actually, the ream works quite well as it is heavy (you hang on to the ream end and tap with the handle end). I have used it for many years and am used to the sound it gives out.