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Just checked amazon on the price of the 2 book set. I noticed one reviewer mentioned about steel string guitar construction. I have the courtnal/cumpiano/bogdanovich books . I like steel strings, but I am definitely more interested in classical/flamenco. I would love to hear your opinions about Ervins book before I shell out 265$$ .

Depends on what you hope to get from them. I paid $170. shipped for the pair from Amazon. They're worth that.

Ernie: I build steel string only and for me the books are worth the price.I bought the set just to have a set but "The Responsive Guitar" was the book of prime interest.While there is lots of data that is common to both guitars I feel the books are more centered on the steel string guitar.Hopefully someone who is interested in nylon string guitars who has the books will show up to give an opinion. Maybe you can talk your local library into aquiring a set.Good luck and take care.
Tom

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Thanks for the advice Tom. Yes my interests lean towards nylon guitars. Originaly from mtl/van. now live in KC. If any of you classical gtr fans out there found the books useful?? ps did the price of the books change from 265 to 170 or were they used? thanks ernie

I can second that!

I build classicals, and IMO they are worth every penny of the price I paid, which was the pre-publication price for a signed set, directly from Ervin. He has a lot of background in nylon string instruments, and is, himself, a Flamenco player. He just decided there was more of a market to a less "stuffy and critical" crowd in the steel string arena. Much of his theory applies to classical guitars as well as steel string guitars. His construction jigs also cross over in many areas. Depends a lot, too, on your construction methods. Great books, but don't expect them to give you answers. Mostly, they give you questions.

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Waddy

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If you are looking for a book that says "cut this brace to .375" and that top to this thickness", look elsewhere. These books do not detail any technical building data. They don't even have one current bracing picture to copy. They discuss at length the whats and whys of developing your own personal style of building.
What type of information are YOU looking for?
Mikey

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The Biggest Little City, Nevada
www.hammondguitars.com
I love building guitars!

Good questions, I would say my style is more intuitive than scientific. Though I sure spend a lot of time measuring and double checking. No 2 pieces of wood are similiar , even from the same species. A lot of times , it breaks down to a judjment call. Should I make this brace thicker because the back is floppy. or thinner, as it is so dense?? I don/t use deflection tests, tea leaves ,chaldni patterns etc , doesn/t suit my style I/ve called ervin twice once to get advice on his neck/body jigs I made 3 and they are very helpful. I also wrote to wish him a speedy recovery after heart surgery. Thanks for your insights. Perhaps I could learn to make some new jigs. My background is in cabinetmaking. Sounds like others are convinced that $ 170 for 2 is a fair price , if one can find it

Although they do have several pictures of bracing layouts that he's used.

Hi there!

I´m in the same boat as you, being mainly interested in nylon stringed guitars. Just chimed in to say that, last time i checked, it would be cheaper to order the two books in separate than the boxed set (about $35, IIRC). does the box give you anything over the two books in separate ?

cheers, and good luck choosing

Miguel.

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Yes.

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Mikey hit the nail on the head in his assessment.. Covers alot of ground, these books.

I'd been looking for awhile for a set, and came across the $170. deal on Amazon by luck I think. Disappeared right after that.

Michael

It might seem like a lot of money but I think it's worth it. At least get the first book.

I think it depends on how many guitars you have under your belt. If your just starting out you'd be better off with some of the more tradional books such as Courtland orC&N
would serve you better. Then add the Somogyi books later.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

+1

ps. I get mine via Amazon for 165$

I'm sure Somogyi's books are great and I will be adding them to my library soon. Another good value in a theory oriented book is "The Luthier's Handbook" by Roger Siminoff. He gives you a lot to think about and apply to your own building methods and style.

Chuck

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"To live a creative life, we must lose our fear of being wrong"
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thanks chuck. I have simonoffs book on mandolin making, but his luthiers book left me scratching my head. I did not understand it. Nonetheless, it pays to investigate before one invests in expensive books. Our local library does not carry his book. I would love to read it. Some of you luthiers said wait till you have a few guitars under your belt. Mostly I build ukes, so have a long way to go . Thanks for all the tips, advice, and warnings to shop when the price has been marked down.

So, for those of you who bought the book - how would you compare the sound of your instruments before and after you read the book? Did it make a difference?

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I say yes, but the differences are subtle. I seem to be getting more "headroom" and a little better attack, but the sonority does not seem to have changed much, which is to my liking. I do not do much testing. I have recorded taps and stuff, and look at the analysis, and I can see the peaks at the right places, but it's more of a post analysis than a build tool. I can't say how much is that I just have more experience. His books did, however, change the way I assess my work as I build.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I think the point Waddy makes about subtle differences is very valid. If we take the quality of a guitar's tone on a scale of 1 to 10 I think a good guitar would rate in at about an 8.5 to 9 and a really great guitar would of course be a 10. There is very little room for improvement,sort of a law of deminishing returns. Folks that make a decent guitar now are fooling themselves if they think their guitars will take a quantum leap after reading and applying Somogyi's ideas.But for someone who is struggling to catch up with the pack or wants to surpass the pack I think the books can be quite a help. Just my thoughts ,maybe I'm nuts.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I bought them at xmas when they were real cheap. I returned them. From a classical builder perspective, I found very little of use. I also found them a little sloppy and with technical errors. They are wordy and go into all kinds of unnecessary subjects about which the author's opinion is no more of interest than anyone else. I think he was more concerned with writing the complete book, a magnum opus than just putting down what he really knows, which as a top builder has to be of interest. He also holds out a little. In an internet world where there is a ton of free and generous info available, that just isn't all that viable any more.

There is also a lot of stuff I just found sorta missed the mark. The methods book would be more useful if his method was more up to date, or more down the line. Unless you want a history lesson. That is no criticism of how he does it. It is just that one can absorb a lot of info from various books that is all very interesting, as one starts up, but it is kinda irrelevant. Who still does a neck like Cupiano or Young? One ends up reading around the subject, but in the end one will do the consensus thing that comes up from the vendors, forums, and Youtube, so why bother. Get a list of the major steps, mine the internet, and come up with the best practices that suit how you intend to build.

That's my take relative to returning them, but if you had an empty library shelf they would have a lot of useful info, and the price is not out of line with the raw size of the books.

FYI, you can get them separately from Amazon Canada (amazon.ca) for under $200.

Steve

thanks guys I appreciate the feedback. I have practically every guitar making book written. From a classical guitar perspective, the book may not be suitable. I already have about 5 models of forms from builders that I admire fleta/barbero/hauser.

O.k., I'm doing this primarily to be devil's advocate but, if the differences are subtle, are they significant? That's to ask, could you have built the next guitar just as well without having read it?

Has anyone heard a drastic improvement after reading the book?

The point I guess is, if you read a book and then continue to do things as you have before reading the book, what's the point? Those of you who've read it, what are you doing differently now than before?

(I know you mentioned that your assessment has improved after reading which is valuable as well but in a different way)

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I don't usually communicate with the Devil or his advocates, but I believe I stated in some part of the incomplete, quoted post that I didn't know whether it was just experience or the book. Unlike Tom, above, I really appreciated Ervin's banter. And, while he may have some things "scientifically" or "physics wise" a bit wrong, technically, he explains, if you read it carefully, that it's partly his way of understanding some of the things. It works for him. When you sell guitars for $30K you can write a book! He's an English major, and has a wry sense of humor, and, IMO is a pretty good writer. I found the books to be full of good information, and the end notes had as much info as the main part of the book. I like the books, and have read "The Responsive Guitar" twice, and will, most likely, read it again. It certainly is not the "Bible" of guitar making. That one isn't out yet, but I'm waiting. Right now it's on loan to a friend who builds using more of the "scientific method" than I do. And, by the way, Tom, I build only classical guitars too, and thought they related directly to the subject. I found his perspective as a Flamenco player to be very pertinent.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars