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| Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31504 |
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| Author: | Ti-Roux [ Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
Hi! #2 (uke) is on the run to the french polish, and #3 (classical) is almost closed. I'm planning to wood for #4 and #5. All is missing now is the #5 B/S, and i'm considering cocobolo. I heard so much about cocobolo, and want to demistify all of this. -I know about allergies. I already been in contact with coco and have no reaction. I'll wear protection anyways. -I heard HHG, liquid hide, titebond and white glue don't get the job done with cocobolo. I also heard that it works fine. What to believe? Well, I'm a bit reluctant to glue bracings and kerfings with epoxy...What's your experience? -What about the adhesion of the finish? Is there a kind of finish that won't stick to coco? I'm planning waterborne lacquer. -Any other suggestions/advice will be welcome about workability/thickness/etc. Thanks! Francis |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
If you're not allergic, you're not allergic, that's good. One can build allergies with exposure and time though, and coco smells a bit acrid and can be unpleasant. IME every glue will work with cocobolo. Like ebony, and all other oily woods, surfaces must be freshly scraped, planed or sanded right before gluing. The oils coming at the surface of those woods and oxidising will prevent a lot of glues from being effective. I am not sure where that thing about coco comes from, African B'wood and Honduran RW, just to name two other rosewoods, are at least as oily. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
I use coco a bunch and built a lot with it. LMI, titebond original and Gorilla wood all do well. If have a problem use some naphtha to wash it. I have not had to do that on anything. |
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| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
I really like working with cocobolo but I have found it difficult to glue. After carefully prepping the sides on my first coco build, I glued in the linings with fresh titebond. I left the linings under clamping pressure for 24 hours & was able to pull them off quite easily, by hand. That experience led me to do some glue testing. I had by far the best results with fish glue. I haven't had any trouble with finishing, but used epoxy to fill pores, leaving a coat of epoxy as a base coat. |
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| Author: | Mike Lindstrom [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
I used coco on one instrument. It sure polishes up pretty. Gluing was no problem. Finishing was. Head plate went on with epoxy. It was my first experience with epoxy. Went fine, but what a mess, and I was unprepared for it to take so long - was a problem in a class setting. Bindings went on with fish glue. Freshly scraped them and had no trouble. First time with fish glue and again made a huge mess. Obviously not under tension, but they stayed on. Fretboard was titebond. No mess. Also stayed on. For the bridge, I used hide glue. Freshly sanded the underside and it's held well so far. The problems I had were cosmetic. It smears color out when you sand it. The rosette (titebond BTW) made huge streaks coming out of the thickness sander. It scraped out ok, but I still see the color. It bleeds with almost anything I put on it. I finally heated it up and brushed on many thin layers of shellac to try and seal the bindings and rosette. The heat helped it dry quickly, but I still got a little bleeding. I'd use it again, but not anywhere near my top, unless I figure out some things to do differently. I will at least use purfling next time. |
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| Author: | Ti-Roux [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
Thanks to everyone! It comfort me a bit, but still a bit scrary about working with it. This guitar will be built in a rush (final projet of my 3 years program in a lutherie scool)... then I just hope I won't have to glue everything twice. Another question... I looked at few places (lmii, RC, Allied, A&M, etc...) and it seems that Qsawn cocobole with straight-grain and no defect is pretty hard to find. I found something that looks great, but still... the back becomes rift sawn at the edges. Any of you knows where I can find stock that is Q-sawn and straight grain along the entire width of the back and along the sides, without any defect? Not afraid of the price. This guitar will be judged by a bunch a luthiers and professionnal musician, and could be exposed in a really big expo. Thanks again! Francis |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
Francis, you might check with Grant Goltz, Whitespruce, over at LuthierCom.org. He has a huge stock of Cocobolo, and I'm sure some of it will be quartered. I used it for one guitar, so far, and it was as you described, and was a bit warp prone, but once I got it jointed, thinned down it became very easy to deal with, and has not made any problems. I used various glues, but was very careful to scrape or plane every joint right before gluing. It does not take a lot of scraping. Just enough to clear the area of the surface oxidation, which occurs with Coco pretty quickly. |
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| Author: | Bailey [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
Luv the stuff. I always glue pieces/parts as soon as cutting and shaping to fit. Luckily...no allergy reaction here. Titebond is my choice. KB |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
I became allergic after three guitars. No problems gluing, but I have always glued right after working. |
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| Author: | Ti-Roux [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
So, what I can conclude is that Coco oxides very quickly, and that are the oxided oils on the surface that make bad glueing. So I'll be fine with HHG, as long as I glue right after sanding or scraping the surface. I also have to be carefull with the bleeding aspect. I probably won't put white purfling, and don't mess with a coco rosette on the POC top... I also find some nice quartered sets at A&M. Perfect! Thanks for your help guys! |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
I have been using coco on my head plates and some binding on the padauk build and have had no problems with the gluing to date . Using TiteBond Orig. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
Ti-Roux wrote: ... I looked at few places (lmii, RC, Allied, A&M, etc...) and it seems that Qsawn cocobole with straight-grain and no defect is pretty hard to find. I found something that looks great, but still... the back becomes rift sawn at the edges. Any of you knows where I can find stock that is Q-sawn and straight grain along the entire width of the back and along the sides, without any defect? Thanks again! Francis You might want to try Cook Woods and Tropical & Exotic Hardwoods of Latin America. I think both of them import logs. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Brian Forbes [ Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Working with cocobolo, myths or realities. |
I've always wanted to make a cocobolo acoustic just for the sheer beauty of the wood and the wild figure it can have, but I've always been timid about doing it because of the myths I have heard as well. I've heard it cant be glued with anything but epoxy because of the oil content. I've also heard it can be glued with regular glue, but it needs to be leeched first. I heard the same story about the bindings, that they will start to fall off after a while. It's for those reasons I have left out coco as a plausable wood for me to use, but after reading some of the above posts I might reconsider. Also, the only wood as of now that I have had any allergic reaction to has been Merabu, and the reaction was immediate and undeniable. |
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