If it can't play stairway to heaven then I'm not interested.
Cheers
Kim
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| "The Guitar Seasoner" http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31653 |
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| Author: | Alan [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | "The Guitar Seasoner" |
A while back, there was a discussion on breaking in a guitar with ToneRite and othere such methods. I just ran accross this web site that sells a device with a small motor that fits on the neck and plucks the strings to help break in the guitar. Seems like a pretty cool idea and costs less than the ToneRite ($59.95 vs. $150 or so). I was thinking of giving it a try...I like the self-playing guitar idea! Has anyone used one of these? www.theguitarseasoner.com |
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| Author: | Kim [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
If it can't play stairway to heaven then I'm not interested. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Must..... resist...... Must...... This device is based upon the scientific studies of a physicist and musician, Ernst Chladni (1756-1827) . The Theory was that sound has an affect on different physical matter and that these changes can be duplicated. His documentation of of these diagrams of his experiments were know as "Chladni Figures". Nodal patterns are formed when sound is induced into the wood of your guitar. As the cellular structure of the wood begins to flex and becomes "broken in", the guitar begins to find its true "voice". For his contributions in this area, Chladni became known as the "Father of Acoustics". How many grammatical & spelling errors can you find in JUST this one paragraph from their website? How about logical errors? Tense errors? Mike |
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| Author: | Casey Cochran [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
I have a buddy who leaves his Sam Bush model mandolin on a stand in front of the subwoofer of his surround-sound. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Mike O'Melia wrote: How many grammatical & spelling errors can you find in JUST this one paragraph from their website? How about logical errors? Tense errors? Mike Fewer than in most posts on most guitar forums, IME ... |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Quote: If I got the wood for free, I would charge for the value of the wood. But thats me. Hey Mike, Speaking of grammar........... "for free" ??? It is free, not "for free."   Sorry, I couldn't resist. L. |
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| Author: | Alan [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Must..... resist...... Must...... How many grammatical & spelling errors can you find in JUST this one paragraph from their website? How about logical errors? Tense errors? Mike Perhaps you're right. It would have been better if he (assuming that it is a he) was a little more polished. Personally, I hope that he is successful enough to hire a flock of frustrated teachers to correct his grammer...and that he makes them call him Sir. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
You are correct Link. Given that was how the question was asked, I responded (unknowingly) in kind: forgottenwoods wrote: Just curious.... If you got all the wood for free would you lower the sales price of your finished guitar? Or would you sell it for the market value based on what it is and not what it cost to make? That said, it does not excuse me. However, one ALWAYS takes a risk in pointing out grammatical errors in a forum environment. Then again, if I were selling snake oil, I would polish my presentation. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Mike O'Melia wrote: However, one ALWAYS takes a risk in pointing out grammatical errors in a forum environment. Then again, if I were selling snake oil, I would polish my presentation. To what grit?     Filippo To wit? |
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| Author: | Alan [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Mike O'Melia wrote: You are correct Link. Given that was how the question was asked, I responded (unknowingly) in kind: forgottenwoods wrote: Just curious.... If you got all the wood for free would you lower the sales price of your finished guitar? Or would you sell it for the market value based on what it is and not what it cost to make? That said, it does not excuse me. However, one ALWAYS takes a risk in pointing out grammatical errors in a forum environment. Then again, if I were selling snake oil, I would polish my presentation. And just how did you determine it was snake oil? You don't believe that playing a guitar helps it to open up, or that it won't work unless it's your fingers plucking the strings? |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
I recently heard of this device designed to "excercise" the wood of a guitar. I thought it sounded like a good idea. Whenever I finished a new guitar, or restrung one that had been unplayed for a long time, I always told the owner to expect it to sound dull for a while. I figured any formerly living thing (that was not musical) needed time to figure out that it was now going to be musical. For instance, I once repaired the neck of a double bass - it had 3 bad breaks in it, breaks that curved around the neck. About the only whole piece was the ebony fingerboard and the body of the instrument. It took a year to get it all glued back together perfectly. When I strung it up I was so let down. It barely had any volume. I let it sit for a couple days in the shop, and when I came back to check it, it was now possessed of a wonderful, throaty resonance - and loud! It remembered what it was supposed to do! So I think this device could be a good idea. Playing the instrument a lot helps the sound, too. Some might call this machine cheating, or taking a short cut. Some might say it's a load of hooey. But it might be a cool tool. |
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| Author: | Hank Mauel [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Casey Cochran wrote: I have a buddy who leaves his Sam Bush model mandolin on a stand in front of the subwoofer of his surround-sound. Been doing this for years in front of my stereo speakers. No special "string pluckers" or "vibrators". If it's a flatpick dreadnought, I play Doc Watson records. If it's a fingerstyle model, I play Doug Smith and/or Chet Atkins records. Figure the guitar should learn from the best. May or may not be effective but the music is sure enjoyable!<g> |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Alan wrote: And just how did you determine it was snake oil? You don't believe that playing a guitar helps it to open up, or that it won't work unless it's your fingers plucking the strings? OK, fair enough. I'm a bit old school here. I have stepped in this mud puddle many times. Many of us here believe that mass production of instruments takes something out of instruments (or leaves it out) so that hand built instruments by learned builders is the way to go. Sure, some build just for the fun of it... but that is not what is at the heart of this "art". So, one goes through the trouble to hand build a guitar, then wants to shortcut the process of "opening up" by using a tonerite or this thing here. Almost no runner hits a four minute mile the first time out. An '82 Cabernet was bottled in '82 and took 10 years to get recognized. Many of the "great" artists are not recognized until after their passing. And there is never a shortage of folks who want to reach the top overnight. Same appears to be true with the "opening up" process of guitars and violins. Recent articles on Stradivarious violins have shown that the builder had no special recipe. Just time. Lots of time. If the toneright or the guitar seasoner could really do that, then it would cost a lot more. But none of the makers of these devices want to publish unambiguous evidence. Just testimonials. Most times, many of us would see that for what it is (as in the $14,615 ROM excerise machine, or those magnetic fuel mileage improvement things that show up perennially), but we are too close to the subject. I will not say they do not work. I don't know. But if someone is going to market such a device as the guitar seasoner, then they would do well to provide proof. Mike |
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| Author: | Alan [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Alan wrote: And just how did you determine it was snake oil? You don't believe that playing a guitar helps it to open up, or that it won't work unless it's your fingers plucking the strings? Many of us here believe that mass production of instruments takes something out of instruments (or leaves it out) so that hand built instruments by learned builders is the way to go. Sure, some build just for the fun of it... but that is not what is at the heart of this "art". So, one goes through the trouble to hand build a guitar, then wants to shortcut the process of "opening up" by using a tonerite or this thing here. Almost no runner hits a four minute mile the first time out. An '82 Cabernet was bottled in '82 and took 10 years to get recognized. Many of the "great" artists are not recognized until after their passing. And there is never a shortage of folks who want to reach the top overnight. Same appears to be true with the "opening up" process of guitars and violins. Recent articles on Stradivarious violins have shown that the builder had no special recipe. Just time. Lots of time. If the toneright or the guitar seasoner could really do that, then it would cost a lot more. But none of the makers of these devices want to publish unambiguous evidence. Just testimonials. Most times, many of us would see that for what it is (as in the $14,615 ROM excerise machine, or those magnetic fuel mileage improvement things that show up perennially), but we are too close to the subject. I will not say they do not work. I don't know. But if someone is going to market such a device as the guitar seasoner, then they would do well to provide proof. Mike So, you have factual documentation of "what is at the heart of this art"? Care to share that with us? In my opinion, and yes, it is just my opinion, this is no different from those that bake their tops (never tried that), fine tuning the braces, or the use of any other tool or construction technique that one might use in hopes of improving the sound of the guitar. If it can make a guitar sound better, what's the harm? Someone might enjoy it a little more or perhaps a little sooner? If you don't believe in doing things that way, don't do it. Problem solved. I would also say that there is no need for all of the negativity. The discussion starts off complaining about grammar, evolves into criticism of snake oil, then into how this goes against the "heart of the art". Oh, and that the only thing that made Stradivarius violins special was just time. Lots of time. Based on that, I would expect that all guitars built today will have the same fantastic sound, if our customers can only wait a few hundred years. Sorry, I generally try not to reply to these types of comments, as it never accomplishes anything. Those with the negative view of everything are not going to change, so responding is just a waste of time and effort. My only reason for the post to begin with was that I thought this person had a clever implementation of the idea and I like supporting “the little guy” when I can…not to mention that it was priced right at about one-third the price of the ToneRite. In fact, I ordered one yesterday and based on the UPS tracking number today, I should have it in a couple of days. Then I plan to use the thing, even though it isn’t at the “heart of the art.” |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Excellent. Please let us know what it does for you. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Alan, please, calm down. I and only I have a problem with snake oil marketing. If u r happy with it, and I am certain you will be, then there is no issue. Personally, I approach stuff like this with a certain amount of personal objectivity. If we all agreed, then what is the point of differing opinions? Or forums? Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Btw, as to your question about my dubious ownership of factual evidence that it does not work... My answer is that I have as much of that as they have proving it does work.  Ok, let's all lighten up. I have wasted more money on bar bills than a 100 tonerites and guitar seasoners, and no good ever came from that as well. I am a hypocrite in my own right. Peace! Mike |
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| Author: | nickton [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: "The Guitar Seasoner" |
Should I use snake oil on my snake wood?
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