Official Luthiers Forum!

There are loads of very nice books on the art of instrument making. None of them can actually tell one how to BE a luthier. I've realized that I do have talent, I know what I'm doing, but I am a RUBBISH worker. I have no idea how to actually go about doing what I need to do and it's driving me crazy.

The questions I need answered somehow are these. How can I properly prepare for what I am about to do so I am ready to do it? What needs to be on my mind as I work and how can I keep my mind on it? What are the signs I need to be aware of that tell me to STOP? Basically what can I do to develop a very disciplined work ethic so that I don't rush through everything and do things before I think about it? I hate seeing wonderful instruments ruined only because I can't concentrate or plan properly. I find it a depressing waste of time, talent, and hard earned cash.

I don't have the answers you are looking for, but here's my 2 cents:

Becoming a luthier isn't like becoming a police officer. You don't go through a school and get a badge. There is not magic light switch that you flip, no a ha moment that says "now I am a luthier". It is a process- like an artist. You must develop your skill with time, patience, and learning from those mistakes that everyone makes.

It sounds like you know what you need to get better at. You talk about being more attentive, patient, etc. If you know you need to do those things, do them. No one is going to be able to magically make you a better worker or a better planner. No one but you can fix you.

Lutherie is a passion for most people on this forum. A very small handful of people around here- myself not included- do this full time. Dreaming big is fine. Just know that dreams aren't always fast.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
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That's too bad. I m not very patient with most things but building guitars no matter how bad the mistakes are I just move on with it.

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Wisdom is justified by her children

It doesn't matter really.
You do the best you can,
and get better.
So what if you make a lousy guitar?
Who's judging you?
yourself?
Your expectations from all the insanely perfect looking guitars built and posted by the forum members?
How do the guitars you've built sound?
That's the most important thing.
Don't stress,
keep trying.

I thought all you had to do was get a web site and a name.

L.

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

It's useful to divide the work into stages, and have a clear idea in your head what tools and materials you need for stage. That way you can prepare the materials, have the tools on hand, and move forward purposefully. I don't find it useful to play music or have the TV going, although I hve both in my workshop if I desire.
If you haven't done so, consider your space and process, and start devising a plan, maybe on paper if that's how you learn best. Write it out step by step.
Stage one: Neck construction
Dimension fretboard blank, and slot. Profile if necessary. Tools needed: Thickness sander, table saw slotting system
Dimension neck blank and route for truss rod. Tools needed: router with edge guide, 1.4 inch rounded router bit
Profile neck. Tools needed: neck template, router table with flush trim earing guided bit
ETC.
Then write out stage two:body construction, stage 3 finishing, stage 4 wiring and assembl, stage 5 setup, so on so forth.
Once you have a clear vision of the entire process written out and in your head, you can plan your build better, and as you meet the goals, feel like you are accomplishing something.
It is VERY important to clean up after each and every step, otherwise you will get mired down, digging through tools, parts, and waste materials looking for the right tool, or partor whatever, instead of actually working on your guitar, and you will become frustrated.
This is what worked for me.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

For me it is very important to not be goal driven. A difficult thing for us here in the West. Being from a production woodworking background I have to make myself slow way down to do my best work. I purposely do not worry about how much I get done at any one time but concentrate on doing each step as well as I can. I get much more joy out of each process this way. I listen to radio shows and digital books while I work. This helps me slow down. When I start thinking I want to get this, this and this done by the end of the day I can run into problems and much of the joy is sucked out of the process. When I work slowly within myself good things usually happen. It takes time to do the best you can do and it also takes extra time to feel the joy that goes along with it.

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http://goatrockukulele.com

Experience always arrives too late.
Talent is being able to actually achieve things.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I can't speak for the others but in my case , I was lucky and found some mentors that helped me along the way. Steve Kovacick , David Nichols and CF Martin helped me a lot to develop the skills I needed. It also takes time. I would say about 10,000 hours of work to get to a professional level .
I know and have seen many builders work and you can spot the good ones very easily. Howard and Laurent do very precise and exacting work and know how to do it. David Laplante also is outstanding. There are plenty of average builders but these guys have some real talent. Fred Tellier also does a nice guitar.
We all took time to learn how but books give you information , not the skill . Patience is hard to learn but is worth the effort

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

i already have a name, now how can i get a website?

now seriously, i don´t have any answer for you save for my personal experience. i sold the business i was at (i was a chemist), thus providing me with income for several years to come (not the rest of life, mind you) and started bothering local luthiers until one accepted me as an apprentice. then i had to convince my wife that she was actually able to tolerate some sawdust in parts of the house. and now, i just need a website and a passionate, Byron-esque narrative of my coming to lutherie to go with it. too bad i´m more of a Carlylian...

cheers,
miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Michael Smith has your answer. Stay immersed in the moment and enjoy every little operation you perform. Why the hurry? The world will survive if it doesn't get one more guitar. Another very useful phrase, remind yourself "It's just a guitar".

Cheers michael hit that one out of the park. But please remember luthiery is not for the faint of heart financially. Behind every up and coming successful luthier there is a wife with a real job

Yep ......... I can play a few notes and strum a lil rythm , but have no musical talent ... I will never be a musican ....... on the other side of the coin , I do have wood working talent and while building guitars amd mando's is hardest thing ive ever done , I think I may be able to do it sucessfully " insert crowd laughing here "

To make a boring story short , I will be a luthier LONNNNG before I ever become a musican

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

i think you just build instruments. one after the other. solve the problems that you had on your last build, find new problems on your current, plan how to avoid problems on your future builds.

I call myself a "custom stringed instrument builder" i think "luthier" is a title that someone else has to call you. or at the least, a title you arrive at for yourself after you're quite sure that you actually are one.

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brendan 3.0 new and improved, with better interpersonal subroutines

Being that I started 2 or 3 years ago when I was 12, I will probably have a lot of experience by the time I graduate high school. I have been corresponding with Ervin Somogyi who has been informally tutoring me, currently on guitar design. I have already learned a lot, and I'm hoping that after college or something, mr. Somogyi might accept me as an apprentice. I'm hoping I can develop the skills to become a real luthier.

High quality training out of the gate is critical in my mind if you want to be a professional in any area. If there is passion for the craft and a lot of hard work follows you'll be there. There are no shortcuts. Somewhere during the journey it will be obvious whether your brain is wired for this stuff. Talent is vastly overrated in my mind.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Thank you so much for so many replies! Encouraging words here, as well as answers. Much appreciated.



Now that's an interesting thought. One part of me is worried at this "Does this mean I may never be able to consistently build instruments even if I am REALLY good at doing each of the steps? Why yes it probably does. That's why you need to change something, hence this discussion".

One thing I have realized is I need to work at a much slower pace. The list that guitarwhisperer brought up is something I definitely want to try. It may not be necessary for EVERY step, but for things like fretboards, necks, binding and a whole lot of other things it will likely help out an awful lot. Thank you very much sir.

What I think needs to happen is I need to divide everything into very separate steps. I need to write down everything I need to do the night before and then refer to that list as I work instead of just "going for it". Doing everything ONE step at a time can prove crucial, and I need to make sure that I take the time to do things instead of trying to do one step per session. I also desperately need to clean up after I finish a step so that I can pick out a tool if I need it.

Thanks all.

Feel free to gimme some more ideas if they come to you.

On second read, the OP wasn´t asking how to become a financially viable luthier (don´t know why it seemed that way on 1st read) but more how to develop proper working ethos. my best advice is to take apprenticeship with with an experienced luthier. besides learning from his experience and experience-refined habits, it pays off to be the underdog to develop a respect for work and good practices -which i guess could be called a work ethic. if i´m letft to my own devices - internet, forums, books - i always end up addressing the "bigger picture" and forgetting the details.


cheers,
miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Trust me, instrument building is one of the most fulfilling things I have ever experienced in my life. I love it. The problem is that I get in the way!

edit: and regarding the "talent is overrated" - it reminds me what my dad used to tell me: "i don´t believe in talent, talent is an excuse for the lazyness. i believe in hardwork and indifference to failure." something gets lost in translation, but i believe the point is close.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I think I get what your saying here , and you may be correct to a degree , I guess my thinking is that High quality training is great and a person can achieve alot , however two guys side by side taking the same course , one with talent and one without and the Talent will become obvious fast . Otherwise EVERY person who ever took lessons from a Master Luthier should be a Master luthier ? If thats true , then everyone who took lessons from Bill Monroe would be a Master Musican ?

THATS where talent comes in . Is it over rated ? Possibly

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Wrong.
Tell it to Henry Ford, or Thomas Edison.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

If talent is defined as brain circuitry that results in one developing an intense passion for a craft that leads to an obsession to achieve mastery (especially at a young age) then yes, it's everything.
On the other hand, most people seem to view talent as in inborn trait that allows easy mastery of the skill in question. That's the concept that I think is vastly overrated.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Talent is a word made up by jealous people.
There are only skills and the aquisiton of them. Period.

Not only overrated, but wrong. Talent is nothing, or not much, without practice and skill.
But, there is no question some people have a certain pre-disposition to certain areas of thought or expertise. Even if they wanted to, not every Athenian could think like Socrates, not every musician could reach the level of JS Bach, not every general could be Hannibal.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/