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Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32951		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Steve_E [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
My latest classical build turned out wonderful and I expect to sell it to its new owner tonight.

I have started using Aquila Alchemia (synthetic gut) strings, and have noticed something I have not noticed in past builds. I am still fairly new, so I build to spec:
* top .09 around the perimiter .1 i the middle (seal coat of shelac)
* sides laminated @ ~.1 (seal coat of shelac)
* solid linings (mahogany) (seal coat of shelac)
* back about .095 (braces and marriage strip are french polished - back left bare)
* Spanish heel using Spanish Cedar (seal coat on the inside with shelac)

The Aquila Alchemia nyla-gut strings have high tension (even on the normal tension I use). I love the sound, very clear trebbles and a very even bass trebble balance. The problem I'm having is that I'll be sitting in my office (where I have my guitars on the wall) and I'll hear the dreaded "TWANG" of the 1st string snapping. I've gone through 3 1st strings. The trebbles take quite a bit of time to reach stability - about a week of bringing pitch, so I'm assuming that they are reaching their tensil limit.

I've checked the fit and polish of my nut, saddle and frets and all are highly polished. The only thing I can think of is that in the normal daily fluxuation of household temperature - it's summer, we run the air in California - that the guitar is breathing a little and there is some give and take from the neck/body. I've only had this issue with these particular strings. I normally use Savarez with no issues at all.

As I think about the breathing guitar and the effects on these delicate nyla-gut strings, I am thinking that perhaps I should add some type of carbon fiber in the neck for added stability or a laminated neck for added stability. I have no experience with carbon fiber, so I really do not know if that will help at all. I do not want to use a truss-rod.

Any thoughts, other than don't use these strings? What are the thoughts of guitars "breathing"?
Steve
Author:  DennisK [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
Hmm, I've had a set of Aquila Ambra strings (nylgut) on my Cordoba for over a month and none have snapped. And those recommend against tuning above A430 (I just go about half a step below A440). I don't see anything about tension limits on the Alchemia set though. What scale length is your guitar? Mine is 25.5"/648mm. Also, does the string always break in the same place?

I kind of doubt the slight movement of the wood over the course of the day would be enough to bother the strings. Where do you store the guitar when not in use? In a case, on stand in the corner, hanging on a wall? Does it get any direct sunlight throughout the day?
Author:  Michael.N. [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
Nothing to do with the stability of the Guitar. I haven't had such issues with Nylgut but real Gut high E strings are very prone to snapping. The Nut grooves and saddle top should be polished with something like an auto liquid polish. I dowse twisted strands of sewing cotton with the liquid, polishing each nut groove. You may also like to use some soft pencil lead in the Nut grooves and on the saddle top.
Try and find out exactly where the string is breaking, a little difficult since Nylgut is so stretchy.
Check the break over the saddle, perhaps it is too steep.
Fingernails that have slightly rough edges to them can quickly wear real gut and Nylgut as well, more so than Nylon in my experience.
Failing that go for Nylgut with slightly lower tension on the 'E'. The strings are available in singles and at many diameters.
Author:  Steve Davis [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
can you tie a different knot to lessen break angle?
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
I've got Aquila Nylgut strings on two guitars right now, they have been strung up with these strings since mid winter with no breakage.

Even with the guitar responding to fluctuations, it shouldn't put that much extra strain on the strings. I agree with checking your break angles, that can put extra strain on the strings.

I love these strings, they have a sparkle that regular nylon just doesn't have on my Torres style guitars.
Author:  Steve_E [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
DennisK wrote:
Hmm, I've had a set of Aquila Ambra strings (nylgut) on my Cordoba for over a month and none have snapped. And those recommend against tuning above A430 (I just go about half a step below A440). I don't see anything about tension limits on the Alchemia set though. What scale length is your guitar? Mine is 25.5"/648mm. Also, does the string always break in the same place?

I kind of doubt the slight movement of the wood over the course of the day would be enough to bother the strings. Where do you store the guitar when not in use? In a case, on stand in the corner, hanging on a wall? Does it get any direct sunlight throughout the day?



The guitar is 650mm scale length. I use an 18 hold bridge so no option on tying differently there. Most of the breakage is around the 3rd fret (twice) and once right in the middle (12th fret). I'll also try to look at the nut more closely and get it even more polished.
The guitar hangs on my wall when not being played. My office faces the South, but is shaded by trees and I don't like direct sunlight. I do a lot of Sor practice pieces that spend a lot of time around the 3-5th position, so perhaps a rogue fingernale is weakening the string. I also do a lot of pull-off's, so perhaps, I should look at a hidden bur on the bevel.

Thanks for the advice. I didn't think normal breathing would be causing the string to snap, but it is strange to hear the twang in the middle of the night (phantom players).

Steve
Author:  Jim Watts [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
Steve, Where are the strings breaking at? That should give you a glue where to look.
Author:  nickton [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
Hello anybody there? Eat Drink
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
Jim Watts wrote:
Steve, Where are the strings breaking at? That should give you a glue where to look.


Steve_E wrote:
Most of the breakage is around the 3rd fret (twice) and once right in the middle (12th fret).
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
Have you checked your fret polishing? Sounds like it could be the culprit. Either that or you are just wearing them out...
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
If they are breaking in the middle like that, I'd say it's a string quality issue. However, with an 18 hole bridge, you have a pretty stiff break angle, and if you do not chamfer the holes, you'll get breakage where the string pulls up against the edge of the bottom hole. Also, I have found that I have to soften the front edge of the nut slots to a soft edge rather than a sharp edge, particularly if the slot is slanted at the front edge.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
WaddyThomson wrote:
Jim Watts wrote:
Steve, Where are the strings breaking at? That should give you a glue where to look.


Steve_E wrote:
Most of the breakage is around the 3rd fret (twice) and once right in the middle (12th fret).


Oh :oops: I missed that. I concur though, probably strings or a rough fret.
Author:  Shawn [ Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Breathing Classical Guitar and Aquila string snapping issue
I suspect that a stray fret edge combined with pulloffs is the culprit especially since it is the first string where it has a greater chance of catching a fret edge. I would check carefully at the 3rd and at the 12th since those are the spots where the string broke.

If your practicing Sor then we can eliminate string bends while playing 'Round Midnight :lol:
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