Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Made my first mistake
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=45507		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Made my first mistake
So I started my first build, a classical, and I found my first mistake. I just got my neck finished and noticed my first peg head is too far from the nut. Approximately 25mm too far.
My neck right now is 22mm thick, I can remedy this by taking thickness from the top of the neck (I'm confident I can do it keeping the top square) that would bring the nut closer to the peg head. I'm going to bring the neck thickness down to about 16 mm or so, so I have some room to play with.
Or I can leave it be....will this affect the sound/playability?
Thanks guys...
Raul
BTW, I'm having a blast!
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Sounds like a good plan. I like to have the neck thickness tapered about 19mm at the heel to 16mm at the nut, and do the tapering from the top side so there's as little runout along the back of the neck as possible. Gives it a nice smooth but textured feel, with a thin, open pored shellac finish. And if it's a scarf joint headstock, then thinning from the top will put the joint line in a nicer looking place, right at the transition from shaft to headstock.

It will alter the headstock angle a bit, but probably no problem.

As a side note, this reminds me that I had a "nightmare" last night about drilling two tuner holes in the wrong place laughing6-hehe I think I worked them into being decorative open spaces after that...
Author:  Michael.N. [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
I taper the Neck on it's top surface anyway, it ensures that the joint from the head to the back of the Neck can be hidden a bit more easily. It's in the McCleod/Welford book.
Author:  Ruby50 [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
My first mistake was starting my first guitar

Ed
Author:  Tom West [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
I think John Hall has said here a couple of times "No such things as mistakes, just opportunities to learn."
Tom
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Ruby50 wrote:
My first mistake was starting my first guitar

Ed


Amen to that but bet you'd do it again anyway duh
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
A mistake free life would be a pretty ho-hum existence. As long as all of your fingers still add up to ten, it's another learning opportunity, as others have said. oops_sign [:Y:]

Alex
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
You guys are funny! Great community here! :smile:
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Soon it will be " I made my first mistake " THIS WEEK ! laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Tom West wrote:
I think John Hall has said here a couple of times "No such things as mistakes, just opportunities to learn."
Tom

I hope I remember that wise piece of advise the next time. [:Y:]
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Seems there is always one slow one in the crowd, and I'm afraid its me. I don't have a clue what you are talking about. A picture might be helpful for us dummy's. Or maybe it is just one dummy.

Unless my math has gone south on me again, I see he is talking about nearly an inch. I really doubt that kind of correction will happen from taking wood off the top, unless the cut is angled. Something like 0 at the heel and a lot from the nut end. That will of course will change the angle at the body. With that much correction it might be better to plug the hole, plane the sides of the headstock down some and apply wings to cover the hole plugs. But then if the peg head is already slotted that won't work.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Tom West wrote:
I think John Hall has said here a couple of times "No such things as mistakes, just opportunities to learn."
Tom

If you take advantage of those opportunities, shouldn't there be fewer of them? laughing6-hehe
Author:  Haans [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Half of guitar building is learning how to make mistakes work.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
On the last day of school in grade 3, Mrs. Hopkins kissed me on the top of my head, and told me, "Never be afraid to make a mistake, Alex. That's the way you learn." Many years and mistakes later, I'm still learning, and remember what she told me. :)

Alex
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Joe Beaver wrote:
Seems there is always one slow one in the crowd, and I'm afraid its me. I don't have a clue what you are talking about. A picture might be helpful for us dummy's. Or maybe it is just one dummy.

At least if I'm understanding properly, it's like this. The neck is thick, and has a tuner hole (red) drilled too far out on the headstock. But by thinning the neck from the top (green line), the nut moves farther out onto the headstock, thus reducing the distance from the nut to the tuner hole.

Attachment:
NeckTaper.png


Another thing for Raul to note is that this also increases the distance between the heel and nut... so if it's a stacked heel and has been glued on already, it may need to be removed and repositioned. Or if it's a one-piece neck and you want to keep it that way, then this may not be a good solution, depending on how much wiggle room you left yourself when cutting out the heel.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Dennis,
Yep I see what you mean, and as you pointed out he does need to be aware of changing the length of the neck and possible the geometry of things
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Maybe I am the other dummy in the crowd , seems like this is being over thought. Respace the rest of the holes to adapt and move on . next set. 1/8 forward. Last set slightly
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
Michael.N. wrote:
It's in the McCleod/Welford book.

Wow. I thought no one else had that one! I don't like his 18 to 20 degree suggestion for a head/neck angle though.

Here's another one (talking classical guitar here): "...the strings on a tuned instrument have a pull of several hundred pounds". (p65).

Last time I checked it was about 97lbs for super-hi tensions, more normally about 80lbs. Maybe they tuned a little higher back in the 70's... :lol:
Author:  guitarradTJ [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
DennisK wrote:
Joe Beaver wrote:
Seems there is always one slow one in the crowd, and I'm afraid its me. I don't have a clue what you are talking about. A picture might be helpful for us dummy's. Or maybe it is just one dummy.

At least if I'm understanding properly, it's like this. The neck is thick, and has a tuner hole (red) drilled too far out on the headstock. But by thinning the neck from the top (green line), the nut moves farther out onto the headstock, thus reducing the distance from the nut to the tuner hole.

Attachment:
NeckTaper.png


Another thing for Raul to note is that this also increases the distance between the heel and nut... so if it's a stacked heel and has been glued on already, it may need to be removed and repositioned. Or if it's a one-piece neck and you want to keep it that way, then this may not be a good solution, depending on how much wiggle room you left yourself when cutting out the heel.

Yes this is exactly what I was writing about!
Luckily I caught it before I glued the heel. So I took down the neck to 18mm on the nut side and 19 on the heel end. Spacing is now 50mm from the start of the nut to the middle of the first tuner hole. I think it's supposed to be about 30mm, but that's going to have to do for now.
I figured out that I set my template for the head to far back, didn't check the spacing to the nut....build and learn!
Thanks for all your input!!
Raul
Author:  Greg B [ Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Made my first mistake
If you were planning on putting the nut on the flat portion of the neck, it could be instead moved up and placed on the face of the headstock, Martin style. Going to the angled nut style would gain you another 5-6mm, or however thick the nut is.

Maybe all classicals are made that way? I dunno - never made one, but I seem to recall the nuts being on the flat part of the neck.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/