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| Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51576 |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Hi, First acoustic build. I somehow cut the ends of B3 and B4 braces short of the linings, ie; they do not tuck into the linings. B3 falls about 3/16" short, and B4 maybe a 64th or so. My budget is zero. I have to use what is available to me. I looked through what wood stash I have, particularly SPF 2x4 cutoffs, etc., looking for quartered wood. No dice so far. I have considered just tucking the first two smaller back braces and feathering the bottom two down to the back and just rolling with that. It's a first build, so.... But I have small off cuts from the brace wood. I'm also considering adding to the length of the ends of the brace using a single dovetail to join it together. I know end grain to end grain ain't gonna work, but wondering if that might? I can keep looking for scrap that might work to replace the two braces, but I'm running against time; I've waited all year for winter so I could brace in proper humidity, and the weather is warming up, cooling down, etc. Looks like it will get colder starting today into next week, but the way things are an early spring could derail my build for another year if I don't close the box pretty soon. So I can't just wait indefinitely. |
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| Author: | BradHall [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
I would remove and replace the braces. You put too much work into a build to compromise on the main structural braces. PM me what you need (rough dimensions) and I'll send you the brace stock. |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
BradHall wrote: I would remove and replace the braces. You put too much work into a build to compromise on the main structural braces. PM me what you need (rough dimensions) and I'll send you the brace stock. What a kind gesture. M |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Brad's making a nice offer there. But Mike, you can probably get something local. I can buy a stud at Lowes for less than $3.00. It doesn't have to be quartered in order for you to cut bracewood from it that will have fairly vertical grain lines. Regular studs are not ideal, but they are available, and you can cut them to work OK for those particular braces. Don't do any of the patching that you have described. Just cut regular braces from new stock. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Agree with Don. There are 10's of thousands of guitars out there with off quarter to flat sawn back braces. Use what you have or go buy a 2x4 for a few bucks, heck drive around to job sites and scrounge up a 2 foot long 2x10 or... Check Craigslist for free lumber.... |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Along with Rod's thought of scrounging from jobsites: Anybody who has torn out an existing wall as part of a renovation and is headed to the dump can do you a small favor at no cost to them and no cost to you. Old studs are better than new studs, because they will be very dry (unless there was water damage that led to the renovation). Just grab a few pieces that are long enough out of their refuse pile and you are all set. |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Thanks, gentlemen. I did some more digging, and believe I have found what I need. Brad Hall, I sent you a PM earlier. Please ignore that. I have what I need. But I can't thank you enough for your kindness and generosity. It is greatly appreciated. |
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| Author: | RaymundH [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Well, Taylor Guitar does this on their 600 Series backs? https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/a ... /600/story |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
RaymundH wrote: Well, Taylor Guitar does this on their 600 Series backs? https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/a ... /600/story They changed to untucked back braces when they switched to maple back and sides for that series. The rationale was that they were trying to add bass response to counter the stereotypical bright sound that guitars with maple back and sides are perceived to have. This was part of their effort to make maple an acceptable alternative to Indian rosewood for their customers. I haven't played one of those so I don't know how effective it is. I haven't seen any complaints on the guitar forums about problems with those guitars so it seems like it must be a viable approach at least structurally. |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
That is something to think about, since I have a slightly smaller than normal OM-ish build going, and certainly am concerned RE bass response. Need to consider, look around online, etc. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
You would probably want to feather the braces to zero so as not to have a brace end stress riser. I've done it this way myself on several guitars where I wanted a more responsive back. But what I do is feather to a paper thin edge and glue the linings right over it for extra security. But you'll be ok. If you need a brace and you are close to the south western part of Virginia just let me know. 
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
jfmckenna wrote: You would probably want to feather the braces to zero so as not to have a brace end stress riser. I've done it this way myself on several guitars where I wanted a more responsive back. But what I do is feather to a paper thin edge and glue the linings right over it for extra security. But you'll be ok. If you need a brace and you are close to the south western part of Virginia just let me know. Thanks. If I plane the braces off, I think I have found the wood to replace it with. But now I'm thinking maybe try this. I am trying to build with a responsive back, as much as a beginner can. Since I'm building this guitar on Youtube, I'll have to make sure I tell folks I made a mistake, and why I'm trying it, but might be cool to try. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Probably best to just replace the braces. Back brace wood doesn't need to be anything special. But another option would be to cut through the linings and add "feet" for the braces, which could be made to reach farther inward to catch the brace ends. My first guitar had them for the back braces, and the dentellones running over the soundboard brace ends are the same idea as well. |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Dennis, that was ssomething else I was considering. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
I would do what Dennis suggested if the braces are already glued in place. It will work fine. You don't need to find quartersawn 2X4's for brace stock. When making braces from well dried scrap spruce I always split the wood with the grain and make braces from split stock. It is wasteful, but they are stronger. It also helps eliminate runout. With a 2X , even if rift sawn you can split out stuff tall enough for braces |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
So what did you decide Mike?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Rod True wrote: So what did you decide Mike?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I left them short of the linings on the last two and tucked the two closest to the neck. Box is closed, finally. I don't think there will be an issue with it, but we will see long term. But I have been working on this guitar since September 2017. Gotta move on and finish the darned thing. Still got binding, neck, dovetail, neck set, bridge building, finish, set up, etc., etc. Thanks to everyone who helped. It is all very much appreciated. |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
By the way, that closed box sitting on my bench is a very satisfying thing. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
I bet. Don't feel too bad about the time factor Mike. I've had more than 1 guitar take me 4 years to build...…. life can really happen when all we want to do is make guitars. |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Rod True wrote: ...... life can really happen when all we want to do is make guitars. Yep, for sure. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
4 years? Wow, you guys are fast! Lol New username, same Pat Mac |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Mike Baker wrote: Rod True wrote: So what did you decide Mike?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I left them short of the linings on the last two and tucked the two closest to the neck. Box is closed, finally. I don't think there will be an issue with it, but we will see long term. But I have been working on this guitar since September 2017. Gotta move on and finish the darned thing. Still got binding, neck, dovetail, neck set, bridge building, finish, set up, etc., etc. Thanks to everyone who helped. It is all very much appreciated. New username, same Pat Mac |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Next time, try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgS6-O2APWY "I used to say I can cut 'em off, but I can't cut 'em on, but that's no longer true" Ed |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Ruby50 wrote: Next time, try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgS6-O2APWY "I used to say I can cut 'em off, but I can't cut 'em on, but that's no longer true" Ed Thanks. That's very ambigulated of you. 
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cut back braces too short. Viable solution. |
Hahahaha! That is most certainly next level carpentry. I love the terms used. Fullah BS powder and embigulation LOL
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