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| When do you Fret? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51619 |
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| Author: | mountain whimsy [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | When do you Fret? |
And, no. The answer is not, "When I realize that the latest batch of must have back/side sets was accidentally shipped to your home address and not to your friend's house, thus necessitating a talk with the wife." So, simple question that has many answers. When do you fret your instruments? 1) Fret the board before attaching it to the neck? 2) Fret after the board is glued to the neck and leveled, but before finishing or attaching the neck? 3) Fret after finishing and attaching the neck (assuming you finish the neck and body separately)? 4) Fret after finishing (assuming you finish the neck and body after they are attached.)? I've done all four and feel that they all have their pros and cons. Lately I've doing #3. I get a perfectly level board that needs very little fret leveling. Easier to mask the board when finishing without the frets on it (I hate having to scrape out the little bit of finish that always seems to seep under the tape along the fret end.). But fretting near the neck joint and fingerboard extension is a pain. Just wondering how everyone is doing it and why. Cheers! |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
#3 for me. I've developed a method of setting the neck angle the way I like it now but when I first started building I sometimes would have some issues to deal with at the body joint and found that fretting being the last thing I do I could surface the fretboard perfectly and iron out any issues. I still do it this way. |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
Basically number 1. Radius, slot and taper the board, then inlay and bind it and finally fret before gluing on to the neck. I press frets in and feel that I can get more consistent results if I don't have to support it differently for each zone. The f/b takes a slight back bow from compression, that has always gone away when I glue it to the neck. The f/b ends up at final width when I do it this way, the neck is slightly over wide. I can bring the neck down to final width without damaging the binding. I've been doing a fair number of single and double cut set neck electrics where everything has to be exactly right at the neck to body joint - this sequence seems to give me the best control. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
Number two for me. Fretboard attached and neck final shaped. With a double tenon bolt on I can bolt the neck on just like it will be when it is done. Level and fret, final sand, and finish. Final fret level after finish and assembly. |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
Freeman wrote: Basically number 1. Radius, slot and taper the board, then inlay and bind it and finally fret before gluing on to the neck. I press frets in and feel that I can get more consistent results if I don't have to support it differently for each zone. The f/b takes a slight back bow from compression, that has always gone away when I glue it to the neck. The f/b ends up at final width when I do it this way, the neck is slightly over wide. I can bring the neck down to final width without damaging the binding. I've been doing a fair number of single and double cut set neck electrics where everything has to be exactly right at the neck to body joint - this sequence seems to give me the best control. Me, too! |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
#3. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
#2. Now that I have the neck geometry under control that works for me. Final level and polish comes after the guitar is done. |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
Everything done after the guitar is finished and assembled - that seems like your #3. We always bind our fretboards, so after final level, we cut a slight bevel on the edges to prevent finish damage when the frets go in. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
After finishing. However, neck is not attached when I do the frets. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
#3 for me. |
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| Author: | mountain whimsy [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
Thanks all! Just confirming that I'm not missing some approach that would help my process. I'll stick with #3. Any hassles of fretting with the neck attached are likely outweighed by knowing that you have everything just right prior frets. Woodie - good tip with the little bevel on the edge before the frets to in. I've just switched over the hanger bolt method for my neck attachment. I started with the barrel nut style, moved to dovetail (mainly to prove to myself that I could pull it off), and now am at the hanger bolt. Have three in progress right now and really like how easy it is to get a solid joint that is fit well. I thought I might go back to fretting with the neck off because of this ease of attachment, but will stick to fretting after finish and final attachment. |
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| Author: | dpetrzelka [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
I've been starting with a radiused and slotted board and switching between #1 and #3. Landing on #3 for future builds. How many of you radius the board after gluing to the neck (as in #3). I'm seeing an increasing number of builders on Instagram who have photos of them hand radisuing the board on the guitar. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
What do the factories do? Specifically Martin or Taylor. It would be nice to fret with an arbor before the board is glued to the neck. I’ve done both but can hear Hesh yelling in my head when fretting beforehand.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
I radius with the neck glued on. To do the high frets, I have a small ziplock filled with bird shot, tightly wrapped a generously coated in duct tape about 2x3x5" that I hold under the UTB. This nicely absorbs any hammer shock and prevents your fingers from getting all atingle in a not nice way... |
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| Author: | guitarjtb [ Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
I'll take door number 3. I install the neck after finishing, sand the fret board level, then re-sand the radius back into the board, and install the frets. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
meddlingfool wrote: I radius with the neck glued on. To do the high frets, I have a small ziplock filled with bird shot, tightly wrapped a generously coated in duct tape about 2x3x5" that I hold under the UTB. This nicely absorbs any hammer shock and prevents your fingers from getting all atingle in a not nice way... That is exactly what I do, right down to the duct tape. It does work very well. I think I learned it from a repair guy in Mpls. Great minds - - - |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
That's a good idea for hammering frets. I used to hold a block plane under there to absorb the shock. Now what I do now is cut those frets wider and simply glue them in with a very slight tap. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
I do not do it with neck attached because higher frets are more difficult. There is some kind of jig for this, but I never built one. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
When I was at Hesh and Dave’s class they had a snub nose jaws 2 that let you do all the over the body frets safely. I’ve considered doing that myself. It lets you press from the highest fret back to about 16 or so. For the 10-16 range (depending on which fret is at the body join) you can make a jig like this (also a Dave invention):   I made one basically identical to Dave’s with a cork lining. I don’t have a pic of it on my phone. Hope that helps. Brad Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | 6string [ Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
mountain whimsy wrote: Thanks all! Just confirming that I'm not missing some approach that would help my process. I'll stick with #3. Any hassles of fretting with the neck attached are likely outweighed by knowing that you have everything just right prior frets. Woodie - good tip with the little bevel on the edge before the frets to in. I've just switched over the hanger bolt method for my neck attachment. I started with the barrel nut style, moved to dovetail (mainly to prove to myself that I could pull it off), and now am at the hanger bolt. Have three in progress right now and really like how easy it is to get a solid joint that is fit well. I thought I might go back to fretting with the neck off because of this ease of attachment, but will stick to fretting after finish and final attachment. Kinda off topic but I’m having a hard time understanding why a hanger bolt attachment is better than barrel bolts. Can you please enlighten me? |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
3, and I use bound fretboards. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
I have done all 4 over the years and right now I do #1.... |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
6string wrote: mountain whimsy wrote: Thanks all! Just confirming that I'm not missing some approach that would help my process. I'll stick with #3. Any hassles of fretting with the neck attached are likely outweighed by knowing that you have everything just right prior frets. Woodie - good tip with the little bevel on the edge before the frets to in. I've just switched over the hanger bolt method for my neck attachment. I started with the barrel nut style, moved to dovetail (mainly to prove to myself that I could pull it off), and now am at the hanger bolt. Have three in progress right now and really like how easy it is to get a solid joint that is fit well. I thought I might go back to fretting with the neck off because of this ease of attachment, but will stick to fretting after finish and final attachment. Kinda off topic but I’m having a hard time understanding why a hanger bolt attachment is better than barrel bolts. Can you please enlighten me? For a newer builder, the barrel nut tolerates a lot more misalignment, while a hanger bolt is lighter and potentially less work, assuming the reinforcement needed is handled early in neck construction. Seems like more the case that each has it's associated benefits and disbenefits. In general, what I've seen is that those builders that have experimented with a number of mounting systems tend to pick the one that works the best in a given situation, rather than trying to use just one approach for all instruments (assuming that more than one distinct instrument is built in the shop, or repairs are done that necessitate neck remounts, etc. ). |
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| Author: | mountain whimsy [ Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
6string wrote: Kinda off topic but I’m having a hard time understanding why a hanger bolt attachment is better than barrel bolts. Can you please enlighten me? This recent thread was what pushed me towards the hanger bolt method. http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51190&hilit=hanger Though I never had a problem with the barrel nuts, I found them a pain to manage. I usually had to grind them down a little bit to fit the tenon. And I always was mucking around with keeping the nut aligned in the hole to accept the bolt from inside the body. Then there was always the little piece in my head that was saying, "that sure seems like a lot of stress on the end grain. Hmm. I could see the bolt just tearing it right out. Hmm. I guess I'll add side plates to the tenon to help with that. Hmm. Is there some other way?" Then seeing that Collings was using the hanger bolt method was what switched me over this round. I just completed three joints after creating a couple of simple jigs to drill the holes so then align correctly. They went extremely well. I am using cap nuts like these for instead of bolts (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/highpoint-knockdown-1-4x20-joint-connector-cap-nut-8-piece?gclid=CjwKCAiAkrTjBRAoEiwAXpf9CZXLEYJjj8oi6TF6Jt1Ua590Q0z1FD96KmApFuuAanLr9ejXd9s4dRoCIQgQAvD_BwE). I have about a mm of play to allow for any fine adjustments that need to happen. Overall, I'm very pleased. And if any of my guitars need a neck reset down the line, there will be no pulling of a fret, blind drilling to find the gap in the dovetail, steaming, and hoping that I was smart enough to use hide glue in order to pull the neck. I realize these are all good skills to have, and I've done a number of resets this way, but I don't see any advantage to the dovetail other than tradition. |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: When do you Fret? |
jfmckenna wrote: #3 for me. I've developed a method of setting the neck angle the way I like it now but when I first started building I sometimes would have some issues to deal with at the body joint and found that fretting being the last thing I do I could surface the fretboard perfectly and iron out any issues. I still do it this way. I do the same for the same reason. The ability to ensure that the plane of the fretboard is dead flat (before adding a touch of relief) after gluing the neck and fretboard on gives me a warm and fuzzy. Initially I fretted the board before gluing on the neck so I could use a fret press for the whole board. However, it caused more problems than anything. Additionally now I use StewMac’s fret barber, which allows for more control over how tight the fit is, which eliminates back bow (too tight) and makes hammering frets in much easier/less stressful (specifically in the Upper Bout). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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