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Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51780		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Tai Fu [ Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
So I have a milling machine.

For a long time I used one of those drill press planers to plane my back and side sets and using hand planes for the top. However now that I have a knee mill I'm thinking maybe it's better to use a face mill which are better adapted for this kind of work. One of my complaint with the Safe-T-Planer is the inserts dull fairly quickly and I have to resharpen it very often. Also drill presses really aren't meant for this kind of work so sometimes the drill chuck can fall off. On the other hand, a face mill uses carbide insert meaning it should last much longer compared to HSS, but I don't think I will hand feed it anymore, but rather I will clamp it to the mill table and move the table to plane it. The mill table is 1 meter long and has a movement of around 30 inches, so I should be able to plane even a side this way (and keep my hands away from the spinning cutter).

Has anyone planed guitar wood with a face mill?

As for cost both appear to cost the same, but I think face mills are better because they use industry standard inserts whereas Safe-T-Planer uses proprietary inserts to where the Wagner brand aren't even being made anymore. I don't know how safe the Stewmac knockoff is.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I used to build a lot of prototypes from mostly plastic and metal but also some wood. I used a knee mill for a lot of the wood parts. I used a fly cutter and it works fine on wood but I did not do anything as thin as a side with it. If you could hold the side down securely (vacuum?) it should work fine. A face mill should give a smoother cut although with a slow feed the finish off of the fly cutter was ready for scraping or 220 sandpaper depending on the part. I also used the mill for some guitar parts. I used the fly cutter to flatten the tops of my necks before I put the truss rod slot in. I traded off the milling machine after I moved on from the prototype work but it was useful while I had it.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I cant imagine a single possible downside to replacing the safe t planer on a drill press to a face mill on a mill.
Author:  billm [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I got a Safe-T planer from Stewmac and tried it for one of my builds. Immediately retired it.
Terrible. Now I find it hard to take it seriously. Possible I didn't give it a proper chance, but gravitated to better methods for myself.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I got a lot of mileage out of mine. I hardly ever need it anymore though...
Author:  edstrummer [ Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I gave the Stew MAC planet and it’s so-so. Cutters get dull and it’s hard to use. Difficult to get even thickness across a wide piece. Trying to transition to hand plane.


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Author:  Ernie Kleinman [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I only use my safety planer occasionally , for odd tasks that cannot be done in one of my 2 thickness sanders. I do like it. e. g. thinning overthickne.sed headstocks
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I don't think I will be having a thickness sander. It would take up too much space for one thing and plus guitar building isn't going to be my priority.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I've never had a drill press drop the chuck in forty years of using a Safety Planer, nor spoken with anybody who has.

My original planer worked well for a long time, and I got another. It worked very badly. It turned out that the cutters had warped a little in heat treatment, and they had not milled the bottoms of the pockets in the holder flat. The combination of warped cutters on non-flat surfaces caused the cutters to want to turn in use. This tool is unsafe if one of the three cutters is at a different depth than the others, and lining up the edges is how you set the depth. Some time spent lapping the cutters and scraping the pockets level saved the tool, but I would not have known that if I had not had a lot of experience with it. I suspect that much of the bad rep of the tool stems from that. Later purchases of new cutters suggests that they remedied that issue fairly quickly.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I never had the chuck get dropped either but I did have scary moments with those planers... those cutters dull very fast and when they dull they tend to want to throw your workpiece around.

I figure clamping it to a mill table and letting the table do the work is better than holding it by hand and pray for the best. Plus the nice thing about a bridgeport style mill is adjustable swing!

Now if I get power feed I can save the workouts from having to move the handwheel all the time.
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Never had my chuck come out. I have seen people use these incorrectly . You have to pay attention to feed direction and the amount you remove. Cant blame the tool if the operator is the one with the loose nut , my pop always said.
I have used mine in my mill and the drill press. small bites are better than big bites.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
"I cant imagine a single possible downside to replacing the safe t planer on a drill press to a face mill on a mill."

I can think of two - the cost of a milling machine and the space it takes up in the shop. Being primarily a metal working machine it would have limited use in a wood shop.
A Safe-T-Planer is basically a "gadget" used for the occasional planing of small pieces of wood. Its virtues are low cost and small size and relative ease of use. For anything other than occasional use there are better tools and methods.
If you have a milling machine and face mill it might make sense to use that. If you have the hand tool skills it might make more sense to use a well sharpened hand plane to thickness the back and sides. Most gadgets perform well within their niche but aren't terribly practical outside of it.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Unless your workshop is a small 100 square feet bedroom I think even a small mill drill is much more useful than a drill press. As an added bonus you can also produce jigs if you need to, the mill makes it easy. It also enable you to locate holes precisely which isn't always possible on a drill press. Also almost all drill presses I have seen have slight nod that you can't tell is there but if you try to use the Safe-T-Planer with the nod it would cause serious problems. I have yet to seen any mills have a nod (and if they did they were easily corrected either with shims or directly adjustable in the case of some Bridgeports). Also the sideway forces we put on drill press for (like using sanding drums on it) is better dealt with by a milling machine.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Tai Fu wrote:
" those cutters dull very fast and when they dull they tend to want to throw your workpiece around. "

That's usually a result of the cutters being at different depths, in my experience. When they get dull they just burn.

"Also almost all drill presses I have seen have slight nod that you can't tell is there..."

It's very important to see that the drill table is perpendicular to the quill. I use a sink cutout above the regular table, which can be leveled with wedges. Check it with a piece of coat hanger wire bent into a 'Z' chucked into the drill press. THe end of the arm should just graze the table all the way around. That's the first thing I check when the quality of the cut drops off.

When I started out I needed a drill press, but had neither the space nor the funds for a sanding machine and the dust collector you need along with it. The drill press planer made a lot of sense. I use it for many things, especially contour mapping top and back plates for violins and archtop guitars. I finally got a dust collector, but still don't have space for a sanding machine, nor any desire for one, most of the time.

To apply the term 'safety' to any power tool is, of course, to prefer hope over reality. Used correctly it's reasonable safe, considering, but it's not 'safe'.
Author:  edstrummer [ Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I contacted Stew MAC today after measuring the bits and pockets in my safety planer and they are sending me a new one !!! One pockets seems off by several thousandths. I will try to thin some coco for my next Uke and see how it works. Pretty outstanding customer service.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Something else to consider - most facemill inserts have a positive rake which will work as an "upcut" lifting the workpiece from the table. Sharp inserts like those used for aluminum definitely have a positive rake and those are the most appropriate insert for cutting wood. If I recall how the Safe-T-Planer works it has neutral rake which won't lift the workpiece allowing you to slide it along. Instead of lifting, the gizmo will push the workpiece into a fence.

A face mill would be fine if you have the workpiece mounted rigidly (e.g. with double sided tape or vacuum along the whole length of the piece) but I think it will lift and destroy the workpiece if you try and do it free hand like you would with the safe-t-gizmo.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I think I plan on clamping it to the mill table and use the handwheel to advance the cut.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Tai Fu wrote:
I think I plan on clamping it to the mill table and use the handwheel to advance the cut.


If it's a thin long piece like a side, it might not help. You should consider something that will keep the piece "sucked down" for the full length like double sided tape or vacuum.

If you have extra width, clamps might work but I'd still expect it to lift at the center making it a little thinner in the middle than at the sides.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
After trying it, I am going to buy a Safe T Planer...

Image

I think I will stick to using face mill/fly cutters for metalworking.

The problem isn't so much that it doesn't work, it works beautifully. The problem is it's very hard to clamp it to the table and making sure that it's secure, flat, etc. and I'm constantly cutting a wedge shape just because the wood, particularly large pieces of wood, is impossible to clamp down without it sitting in an awkward way and danger of it coming loose. At least I can hand feed a safe T planer, but I do not dare hand feeding a fly cutter or a face mill because it is not safe!

If the wood to be planed is enough to fit inside the mill vise, then it's great, if not and there's no way to clamp it securely to the table, then it becomes a problem. Not to mention hand feeding is faster than messing with clamps, setups, etc.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
I've found these very "handy" for feeding wood under a Safe T Planer...
Author:  whiskywill [ Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Colin North wrote:
I've found these very "handy" for feeding wood under a Safe T Planer...


Aliexpress??
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
whiskywill wrote:
Colin North wrote:
I've found these very "handy" for feeding wood under a Safe T Planer...


Aliexpress??

Dont know, got a similar set with my 6" planer, just couldnt be bothered taking a picture as I'm not in the workshop yet
Author:  banjopicks [ Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Having a thickness sander, I can't imagine what I would need it for other than peg heads. I know it's a bit off topic but there it is.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
It is very useful for the back of the neck which is often thicknessed to a taper.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Safe-T-Planer vs face mills
Always use it for that.
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