Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Sanding / Prep Work question

get all the scratches out from the shaping process.

Scrape.

I get best results with a thin flexible scraper. When working on endgrain, try to reorient the scraper every few strokes so you're not cutting in the same direction over and over, since that tends to get ridges started. Shellac is also helpful to harden the wood a bit and make it less likely to chatter.

6string wrote:

get all the scratches out from the shaping process.

What tool or tools are you using for the shaping process?

Wow, that's a big photo.

I use a Grizzly rolling pin sander to get rid of the heel scratches.

Im thinking about give these a try, they are supposed to leave a very smooth finish after cutting.

https://www.amazon.com/Iwasaki-File-Set ... way&sr=8-3

Author:	6string [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Sanding / Prep Work question
Does anyone have any tips or tricks on sanding end grain, like on a neck heel. I know the work your way up in grit routine, just takes forever sometimes to get all the scratches out from the shaping process. I’ve read that Swiss files would do a good job but never tried one.

Author:	DennisK [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
Scrape. I get best results with a thin flexible scraper. When working on endgrain, try to reorient the scraper every few strokes so you're not cutting in the same direction over and over, since that tends to get ridges started. Shellac is also helpful to harden the wood a bit and make it less likely to chatter.

Author:	J De Rocher [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
6string wrote: get all the scratches out from the shaping process. What tool or tools are you using for the shaping process?

Author:	Bryan Bear [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
DennisK wrote: Scrape. I get best results with a thin flexible scraper. When working on endgrain, try to reorient the scraper every few strokes so you're not cutting in the same direction over and over, since that tends to get ridges started. Shellac is also helpful to harden the wood a bit and make it less likely to chatter. That's a good idea to harden up the endgrain with something to make it cut better. I recently used epoxy as a pore fill and expect to do it again. Apparently, you can't put shellac down before epoxy (but you can put it over it). I wonder if putting thinned finishing resin epoxy on the heel would make the final sanding/prep easier. I'll have to try this on some scrap when I get ready to do another neck.

Author:	6string [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
J De Rocher wrote: 6string wrote: get all the scratches out from the shaping process. What tool or tools are you using for the shaping process? I use a combination of a few different rasps for the neck heel. The scratches were not bad or very deep. But noticeable after wiping down. I did eventually remove them using a scraper and micro polishing pads.

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Author:	Terence Kennedy [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
There are always pesky scratches to deal with in the heel area. Just when you think you got all of them a wipe with naphtha always seems to show a few more. By far the best way I have found to deal with them is the Porter Cable Speed Bloc 330 sander using the rounded edges of the pad which allows you to follow the concavity of the heel very nicely. Addam Stark told me about it many years ago and it made finish sanding the heel and headstock transitions much easier.

Author:	Barry Daniels [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
Wow, that's a big photo. I use a Grizzly rolling pin sander to get rid of the heel scratches.

Author:	jfmckenna [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
I use good quality rasps followed by a scraper. Good quality is the keyword when looking for a rasp.

Author:	meddlingfool [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
Progressive rasps to progressive paper and lots of double checking...

Author:	J De Rocher [ Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
After using rasps and/or chisels to get the shape of curved parts of the heel and the headstock transition close to final, I like using rifflers for the final shaping. They can produce a pretty smooth surface that sands nicely with 120 and then 220.

Author:	6string [ Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
Im thinking about give these a try, they are supposed to leave a very smooth finish after cutting. https://www.amazon.com/Iwasaki-File-Set ... way&sr=8-3 As fast as a rasp, as clean as a file! That is the simplest way to describe these woodworking tools. Contrary to the rough cut and sawdust produced by conventional rasps, the Iwasaki sculpting files actually act like tiny planes taking small shavings. At first we were not sure how to categorize these tools, as files or rasps. But Iwasaki's name, translated directly from the Japanese, is "carving or sculpting files." After trying these files, and comparing them to the cut of normal Western-style rasps, we were amazed by the cut, and found the description accurate. These type of tools are also called "joinery floats" or "planemaker floats" as they are used - among many other purposes - for fine tuning of joints. https://www.fine-tools.com/carvingfile.html

Author:	Bryan Bear [ Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
6string wrote: Im thinking about give these a try, they are supposed to leave a very smooth finish after cutting. https://www.amazon.com/Iwasaki-File-Set ... way&sr=8-3 I just picked one of these up specifically for shaping heels and peg-head transitions. I attended a demo on rasps at the local Woodcraft where we were able to try several different types of tools. I had never heard of these but they were far and away my favorite of the tools at the demo. I cut some heel like curves in a block of maple. It was fast and left a fairly clean surface. I remember it taking a min. or two to get the feel of it. I needed to move it a bit differently than I would a normal rasp. Now it just sits in my shop waiting for me to get to a point where I need to carve a neck. Hopefully it will live up to the excitement I had for my limited trial at the store.

Author:	Pmaj7 [ Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
Those Iwasakis look pretty cool, although I'm planning to try TK's method on my next.

Author:	mountain whimsy [ Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
I start with a fine rasp and a light touch. Then I use a 1" wide belt sander belt that I've cut into around 12" lengths in a "shoe shining" sort of motion. This really does a great job blending in all the curves and working the angles. I have a couple of grits that use before going to a variety of sanding pads, blocks, and folded sandpaper. Sometimes a razor blade works great for scraping down problem areas or doing detail work. As others have said, wipe and inspect often to get the problem scratches. I use the same sanding belts to floss the fit on my neck heels. Inexpensive, durable, and just the right size.

Author:	Woodie G [ Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
Rasp (Auriou or Corradi 10), file (cabinet then mill bastard), scraper (0.032" thick with fine burr), and sandpaper (P150 and P220, with P320 on a few woods such as maple and holly) . In wood finishing, a lengthy progression of steps seems like it will be slower than throwing electrons at the problem, but I find it faster than dealing with the issues left from skipping steps. The irregularities left from the previous step in the process must be small enough to be eliminated in the next step, so files eliminate the scoring of the rasp's teeth and refine the contours of the surface being worked, the scraper eliminates the minor roughness and small tooth marks left by the files, and sanding brings the surface to the point where it may be filled or finished with minimal evidence of the nature of the process by which the surface was perfected.

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Author:	bluescreek [ Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
I use sand paper and work through the grits. usually by the time I am on 180 they are just about gone. I also went to aqua coat filler. easy to apply and color. Works well over shellac .

Author:	Josh H [ Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Sanding / Prep Work question
Once I've finished shaping the heel with rasps I begin to work away at it with sandpaper. For every grit I use I start with hard sanding supports (dowels, heavy cardboard tube, etc). The hard sanding blocks work well to remove the scratches left by the previous file or grit of sandpaper. Then before I move onto the next grit I go back over everything with a flexible sanding support (sponge, my fingers, etc) to smooth everything out. Then I move up one grit and repeat. I work my way through 80, 100, 120, 150, and finish with 220. If I follow these steps then I end up with a nicely sanded heel and no scratches. The other key is to always use a fresh piece of sandpaper. I'll use a ¼ sheet for each of these grits when working on the heel, and another quarter sheet for the neck shaft. A worn piece of sandpaper will not be able to remove the scratches left by the previous grit.