SteveSmith wrote:
Walnut is cheap, easy to get and bends like butter.
Exactly what I was going to say
Also no interlocked grain, so it's easier to plane than tropical stuff.
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| Suggestions for first back and sides wood http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=51838 |
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| Author: | Conor_Searl [ Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
I'm curious what people would recommend for a beginner for back and sides wood. Ease of bending and inexpensive I think are my main considerations. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Walnut is cheap, easy to get and bends like butter. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
SteveSmith wrote: Walnut is cheap, easy to get and bends like butter. Exactly what I was going to say Also no interlocked grain, so it's easier to plane than tropical stuff. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Also makes a dang fine guitar... |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
+1 to all of the above Or you could take the 2 X 4 challenge Ed |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Funny, I clicked here to recommend walnut too. Inexpensive, easy to work, bends easily, makes a great guitar and is nice to look at. As a bonus, it smells good too; I just finished a black walnut/ western red cedar guitar with a soundport in the upper bout. You get a wonderful, subtle smell coming from the port while you play it. I'm not sure what woods are inexpensive in BC. Are you planning to cut and resaw your own sets or buy readily available sets? If the prior, you'll need to look into what is easy and inexpensive in your neck of the woods that is also available in the size and cut you'll need. There are other great woods for a first guitar but it is interesting that walnut came up as the number one answer of the first 4 or 5 people to respond. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Walnut is a good choice, but so are many other woods. Plain (unfigured) maple, birch, oak, butternut, tulip poplar, and several other domestics are easy to work with, inexpensive, and can make fine guitars. East Indian rosewood is often recommended for a first guitar and in the "lower grades" is not too expensive. Although the soundboard is the main producer of the sound the "higher grades" may not get you a better structural/acoustical quality board than the "lower grades". Since tops are primarily graded on cosmetics, you may be better off buying three "A" grade tops and selecting the best one rather than buying one "AAA" grade top. For neck wood several of the domestic woods will work, but my first choices would be mahogany or walnut, because of their stability and carveabilty. For a fingerboard I would suggest using a dark colored dense tropical hardwood - a lower grade indian rosewood would be easy to source and not too expensive, but the more adventurous might find a piece of flooring material that would work as well. I guess I had a bit of a "Hesh" moment and answered a few more questions than were asked, (  ) but for a "first guitar" you may want to give consideration to the other components that make up the guitar, and keep them in the same range of cost and serviceability.
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
I'm surprised no one mentioned walnut yet.  Cherry makes a fine guitar too. |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
I've never built a walnut guitar but I was going to suggest plain old mahogany or its near relative sapele. Just putting the finishing touches on another mahogany guitar, played it for the first time last night and as always, I'm very pleased. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Although I really like walnut, I'm going to recommend quartered oak. Walnut's properties are much like that of a soft maple; oak has hardness and density that are more in the 'rosewood' class. It's still not too hard to work with, and it also bends 'like buddah'. Do use well quartered wood, though; flat sawn is not nearly as stable. If you use white oak you can fume it with ammonia to darken it a bit. I've found butternut to be difficult to bend: it's too soft. It makes a great neck wood for classical guitars; it's close to the traditional South American cedar in properties, although it can be 'stringy' to carve. It makes good blocks and liners as well. Even better for liners is willow. For a steel string neck walnut works well, but cherry may be just a bit better. |
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| Author: | Conor_Searl [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Thanks everyone. I'll take it all into consideration. I was looking at some different walnut sets for the back and sides so that's cool. I don't think I'm up for buying the wood raw and re-sawing myself yet. For one thing I don't have a big enough band saw for it, and secondly on top of all the other learning curves that come with guitar building and repair, just figuring out how to navigate lumber supply places is tough in itself. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
If you are looking to use precut sets, you have a ton of good options out there. If your main considerations are bending ease and price, shop around for the prices that look good to you and ask for advice on how it bends. I'd stay away from figured sides for a first one. Were you planing on using a hot pipe or bending machine with blanket? |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
The big lumberyards here in the teeming metropolis rarely have good wood from a luthiers perspective. About the only things I've ever found have been wenge and bubinga. I once sorted through two entire lifts of mahogany trying to find a single useful board, and failed. I imagine Duncan won't be any easier. Maybe check out Wood To Works, they usually have walnut, and they have a depot on the island so you may get cheaper shipping... |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
If you are willing to use a three piece back you can resaw a 6 inch wide board on a 10 inch table saw or a small bandsaw. It may be the least expensive option if that matters. Depending on the time and effort you want to invest in a first guitar that may or may not make sense (i.e. if investing a lot of time and effort spending a bit more for a nicer set might make sense). |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Conor_Searl wrote: Thanks everyone. I'll take it all into consideration. I was looking at some different walnut sets for the back and sides so that's cool. I don't think I'm up for buying the wood raw and re-sawing myself yet. For one thing I don't have a big enough band saw for it, and secondly on top of all the other learning curves that come with guitar building and repair, just figuring out how to navigate lumber supply places is tough in itself. My thoughts, for what they are worth, is to use something that you can relate to when your guitar is done. If you build from something that is commonly used for guitars then you can compare yours. How much effect backs and sides have on sound is debatable (and often is), but at least you have that reference. Second, of course, you need something you can actually buy in British Columbia. That means either shopping in a local lumber yard, a Canadian supplier or someplace else that will ship to B.C. It also means if you are buying from outside B.C. the wood needs to be able to be imported. Looking at LMII's site I see that Honduran mahogany is not but sapele can be. Next, you need to decide how much work you can and are willing to do. Will you resaw the boards to 1/8 inch, will you plane or sand the sides to their bending thickness. Do you have the ability to do that, will a local lumber yard do it, do you want your supplier to do it for you? I still haven't bought a thickness sander, I have a friend with a cabinet shop who will do that for me, but so will suppliers like LMII. Obviously price should be important but I would rather spend a bit more money for wood from someplace I really trust than saving a few cents per board foot. How well the wood was quartered, dried, and stored are pretty important. I would also suggest practicing your side bending on something other than your first set of sides. Again, some of the lutherie supply houses sell practice sets but there are probably better ways to do this. There is a lot to be said for building your first acoustic guitar from a "kit" (assuming you can get it shipped into Canada). Some kits allow you to choose how much work is done for you - my first couple of guitars were kits and as I gained experience I took on more responsibility. I still play my first guitar - it is now 13 years old and just getting better. Happens to be a sitka over rosewood kit, but my point is that it was built carefully from good materials. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Clay raises an important point. Even if you don't want to make a 3 piece back, it might be a good idea to cut some side sets from less expensive wood so you can practice thicknessing and bending on them. That would be good experience and may allow you to feel more comfortable starting off with nicer wood. For their first effort(s), everyone needs to decide where their priorities are from a cost perspective. Some see it as spending a lot of your time on a project so you may as well use good materials. Others see it as a learning process with lots of mistakes so you may as well get those mistakes out on inexpensive woods. The right answer is different for everyone. When I was starting out, I was in the "start with bargain wood" camp. I'm glad I was but I ended up collecting/cutting too many sets when I found good deals. Now I have a some sets in my stash that I am not really excited about using. Edit: Freeman posted while I was typing. |
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| Author: | Conor_Searl [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
yeah, I've looked at the kits and would love to do it, but from a cash flow perspective putting out the almost $700 from the get go just isn't practical right now. I can however swallow $100 here or $200 there accumulating things bit by bit. Along similar lines, stew mac has black walnut back and sides sets for $100, LMI's cheapest is $265, while a Canadian supplier Bow River wood to works has them listed for $65. Am I missing something? |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Conor_Searl wrote: Along similar lines, stew mac has black walnut back and sides sets for $100, LMI's cheapest is $265, while a Canadian supplier Bow River wood to works has them listed for $65. Am I missing something? StewMac is more of a tool store that carries wood on the side, with a pretty high markup. LMI's sets are all flamed, which generally sells for a higher price, but that's still at least double what I'd expect to pay. Not sure what they're thinking. $65 is a fair price for unfigured walnut, and it looks like Bow River has some nice quartersawn sets, so I'd go with that. Should be cheaper shipping, too
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Oak makes a nice guitar. If you ever get the chance check out John Arnold's white oak dred, it's an awesome looking and sounding instrument! My daily player and the guitar I perform with weekly is a Walnut OM with a Sitka top and Walnut neck. Cherry is another good one, just make sure you finish it properly so it doesn't end up blotchy. Lots of good options out there. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Ebay may be another option. You might find walnut sets cheaper once you factor in shipping. The trade off would be a bit more risk. You may have more coincidence in well established tonewood dealer than an ebay store. You'd have to decide how well you know how to evaluate the wood from a listing and compare that to the savings. Don't forget to search for some of the other "domestics" mentioned here. I see RC Tonewoods has some cherry and white oak for not a lot of money. Edit: Hibdon has some walnut and cherry seconds if you aren't too worried about small pin knots an example here: https://www.hibdonhardwood.com/collecti ... ts-wal-018 https://www.hibdonhardwood.com/collecti ... ts-chy-032 |
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| Author: | phavriluk [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Let's not overthink...Bow River has been very easy for me to deal with, even across the international border. I found their stuff honestly described and good value. The walnut OP mentioned sounds like a wonderful start, to me. Bow River can also supply bracewood and soundboards. Their 'factory' and 'professional' grade tops look very nice to me, and their prices are very pleasing. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Suggestions for first back and sides wood |
Connor, given your location and level of experience, you really need to become familiar with Timeless Instruments in Tugaske, Saskatchewan. David Freeman is a builder, teacher, and materials supplier with decades of experience. He has trained hundreds of builders and can supply you with everything you need for your first instrument at VERY reasonable prices. http://www.timelessinstruments.com Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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