Official Luthiers Forum!

I have made shellac both ways with no apparent problems. I like to use Everclear when I can, for no other reason than it seems like it would be better without extra chemicals:

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2019/08/28/shellac-solvent-grain-alcohol-vs-denatured-alcohol?source=W1724ENL&tp=i-H43-BC-Gdz-oYNFo-1o-73vR-1c-oXtaI-90l7h&sourcekey=W1724ENL&utm_campaign=fine-woodworking-eletter&utm_source=eletter&utm_medium=eletter&utm_content=fw_eletter&cid=63983&mid=747009344

Comments?

Ed

I use Grain myself but I have to travel from Virginia to Georgia to get it. Since the wife and I typically take a Florida vacation every years it's no biggie. REminds me, I need another couple of gallons.

And heck if you ever run out of booze when having a wild party it comes in handy for that too.

I have used Sunnyside and Kleen Strip Green Denatured alcohol. Last year I helped a friend bottle wine, who is also head of the Chem Dept at the local University. After noticing a few pints of Ethyl Alcohol on the shelf I asked if he would sell me some and he wound up giving me a pint. It is labeled as Rossville Gold Shield Ethyl Alcohol 200 proof. Has the California stamp and seal over the cap.

Like the article says what I noticed immediately was that the shellac, in my case crushed buttons, dissolved quicker and cleaner. I had a full, clear solution in less than 2 days compared to 3-4 days with a gummy mess floating in the bottom.
Putting it on and the results, I can't tell the difference.

A little bit does seem to go a long way for someone like me who is only building a couple of guitars a year.

T

Maybe people can debate whether the denaturing additives adversely affect the shellac, but I don't think there is any debate over whether they adversely affect us. I love working with shellac that I dissolved in Everclear, but I range from tolerate to absolutely hate working with shellac that I dissolved in denatured alcohol. I tolerate high end solvents like Behkol. I absolutely hate regular denatured from the hardware store. The worst brands give me a headache from the foul smell.

I get that some folks just don't have access to Everclear, but for those of you who do, and haven't bothered, you would be doing yourself a favor by giving it a try.

Here in Illinois, I see adds for Everclear 151 proof but not 190.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't use the 151. Too much water. 190 or nothing.

You can buy it in Missouri. Just grab some next time your here.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I've been using denatured ethyl alcohol that I get at the drug store. It's 70% alcohol, with acetone and a couple of denaturants that make it bitter. There is a small amount of water, but not enough to interfere with dissolving the shellac.

The best way to speed up dissolving shellac is the 'tea bag' method. Measure out the amount of dry shellac you want to use, and tie it up in a cloth bag. I find T-shirt fabric works well. Suspend the bag near the top of the jar so that it's just touching the alcohol. The denser dissolved shellac will settle to the bottom, pushing the alcohol to the top. The resulting circulation does the mixing for you. If you're using seedlac the wax particles will be too large to get out of the bag, and will stay there, along with all of the dirt and bug parts, so you've filtered and de-waxed it at the same time. you can get a usable concentration of shellac in a couple of hours.

35 mile drive to Indiana for the 190, That's all I have ever used for shellac and FP. I am very happy with the results and getting better with.its use. No reason to try anything else.

I use 91% Isopropyl alcohol. I can pick it up at Kroger when we get groceries. It's cheap, and seems to work fine. I mixed some up in a small jar the other day; I don't use much at a time. A 4 oz, jar is enough for me. I was testing out a new concoction for a sealer/ground. I think I mixed something like 12 grams of shellac and 100 grams of Isopropyl alcohol. That should be about a 1 pound cut. I saw the measurements in a cool article the other day, and don't remember where I saw it. I looked at it just now, and the bottom 1/4 of the jar has what looks like some leftover wax in a very thin layer on the glass. It was blond de-waxed, but it isn't completely wax free. Stir it, and it mixes back in. So it de-waxes too?

I thin varnish, and dissolve copal with it too.

I have used borax dissolved in water to dissolve shellac too. The resulting color with that was darker, not blonde. Looks more like aged wood? I don't know why. It doesn't smell at all though!

_________________
Why be normal?

Hmmm. I'll have to try that tea bag method next time. The way sped it up was to grind it in a coffee grinder. It's ready to go over night but you still have to stir it up once in a while. And then of course it needs to be filtered. I've not botthered to take the wax out on the last few batches I did. If I was using it for a base coat for something else I would though.

I never properly thanked Alan for the tea bag trick (or the million other things I have learned from his posts. That is the only way I have ever mixed shellac ant it works great! I am still using an old bag of shellac where some of it will no longer dissolve in alcohol. Which this trick, I just fill the “teabag” with chunks and can throw it out when the stuff that will dissolve has dissolved. The bag neatly holds all the shellac jelly that is no longer good.

This is the first time i’m Hearing of using borax and water with shellac. Now I am intrigued!

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I don't care for grain alcohol - it's pretty tasteless. I prefer a little bite with my Bourbon.

I have been using the cheap stuff ($16 a gallon) for mixing shellac flakes. I'm doing a one pound cut and they seem to dissolve completely within a half hour. The next time I'm at the local Ace hardware I'll pick up a quart of the Green stuff. It is a bit more expensive but certainly less than the price of Everclear.

P.S. Called my local Ace hardware (the last place I saw it) and they said new VOC laws in Maryland have changed what they are stocking. It makes no sense because they still carry the non green denatured.
I ordered a gallon of green denatured through Walmart from Best Cleaning Supply ($33 a gallon/Free delivery). It says it is 190 proof ethyl alcohol and with the denaturant added may have less water than Everclear . Also mentions using it for shellac and as fuel. Twice the price of the cheap stuff but saves a trip to the store.

I have attended 2 shellac classes from Mr. Shellac, Don Williams. He was the furniture finishes curator at the Smithsonian for several decades and is now retired.

When he mixes small batches he uses a coffee bean grinder to reduce the shellac flakes to "dust and crystals" I remember him saying.

Ed

+1 for Bourbon, my personal drug of choice....

Volkov Vodka comes in 190 proof. Much cheaper than everclear and does the trick just as well as grain alcohol.

Volkov Vodka comes in 190 proof. Much cheaper than everclear and does the trick just as well as grain alcohol.



Does that mean that instead of fish eyes you get potato eyes?

Ed

Never had a problem with either.

Here's a source....https://www.laballey.com/collections/ethanol/

I use a Polish clear liquor that is >190 proof. I can’t read much of the label but it does the trick.

From CarlD's suggested website

https://www.laballey.com/collections/ethanol-200-proof

I wasn't aware you could deliver 200 proof - this would be the ultimate

Ed

Are there no requests for a lab license or proof that you run a restaurant when ordering food grade 200 proof? If not, that seems like a big hole in the enforcement of liquor laws.

I ordered some a couple of days ago and only had to identify the industry I was in from a dropdown. Per the UPS tracking number it looks like it's on the way. I only ordered a pint though, not a 55 gallon drum.

Ordered from where? How did they get proof of your age?

Oh never mind I see the link. That's crazy. If I had ever known you could buy this stuff online no questions asked in my college days...

The 200 proof is quite expensive, roughly twice the cost of 190 proof Everclear. Since my move to Michigan a couple of years ago I have had to make do with Klean Strip Green DA, which is about half the cost of Everclear. I have no complaints with it and the denaturant smell is not at all objectionable. When in St Louis last month I picked up three 750 ml bottles of 190 proof Everclear for $15 each. The checkout clerk at Schnuck's looked at me funny, but I am pretty much used to that by now.

_________________
Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large