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| Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius dish http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52587 |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius dish |
Building a hybrid nylon string - Anyone gluing flat/un-radiused fan bracing to a soundboard in a solera/radius dish? Does it hold the radius after drying? |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
"Does it hold the radius after drying?" Yes, it holds the shape - although when I use a solera the arching is not a true radius. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
I switched to flat braces after my first classical, At a GAL 6 or 9 years ago I heard a talk by Eugene Clark where he suggested keeping the fans unradiused. He said they would spring back about 50% so he makes the dish about 2x deeper. I found this is true but I have found that my 2 mm deep dish still gives me a 2 mm or so dome with string tension. So I switched to flat braces without deepening my dish. My top are relatively thin at 2 - 2.2 mm. A thicker top may have more spring back. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
Really? If you just clamp flat braces to the top in a radius dish the top will conform and stay that way? I would have thought it would have sprung back flat. I've always glued them on flat then glued in the radiused transverse bar. I wonder what the stress imparted into the top by clamping flat braces to a dish would do to the tone of the guitar? |
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| Author: | jshelton [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
Like Clay, my solera is more of a parabola than a dish. I use different configurations and thicknesses of tops and bracing depending of whether it's a classic or flamenco but have always glued flat braces. The tops take the shape of the solera regardless of type of wood, thickness, taper or brace configuration. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
jfmckenna wrote: ... I wonder what the stress imparted into the top by clamping flat braces to a dish would do to the tone of the guitar? Even ignoring the braces a radiused top imparts stress, the flat braces pressed into a dish is just an incremental amount of tension. A guitar is all about stress or tension. A bit more pre loading of the top may improve the performance of the top. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
That's what I thought folks, perfect. Reason I'm asking is this will be a hybrid, nylon strings but bolt-on neck and will be constructed using radius dishes much the same as a steel string. The soundboard will have a bridge patch, and if I use flat fan bracing it makes taking a check out of the fan braces for it simple. Have to keep the humidity firmly under control too, winter makes it easier to keep it down. |
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| Author: | Herr Dalbergia [ Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
One highly regarded guitarmaker for nylon string guitars and lutes here in Germany told me, he is gluing the already curved braces on the top, without using a dish, just on a flat surface. When taken of the clamps, of course the top bends according to the curve on the braces. Also nice.... |
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| Author: | oval soundhole [ Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
The two classical makers I studied under in the south of Spain both glued flat braces to their tops. Stephen Hill even used a 6 meter radius dish to glue the fan braces instead of straight into the solera and used a hair dryer to warp the top prior to brace glueing (apparently it's the Granada secret) |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
A well-known builder I know glues his braces flat after the top has acclimated to 8% RH. When the braced top is returned to the main shop with his normal 40-45% RH, the top expands and he gets his dome. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
What thickness of flat braces? |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
wbergman wrote: What thickness of flat braces? From what I've seen, talking Classicals, seems to be 6mm or less in height (Courtnall, Making Master Guitars ) |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
When you say flat braces you mean fan braces right? I can't imagine imparting an arch into the fan braces becasue they are so small. I've only built about a dozen classical guitars but I always glued the fan braces on flat and arched the lower transverse brace to give the top it's shape, and strength. |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
The very first article I saw on building classicals, the builder shaped the fan brace on the glue side to the desired arch. Each brace was glued with a straight, stiff backer on the brace and a thin flexible backer was used on the top of the guitar, so the top was drawn down to the curve. Regular clamps. No work board was used. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
I glue my 4-5mm tall braces in the go-bar not pre arched. the top arch holds when removed from the dish. A The #1 & 2 braces are not glued till the top gets to the solera. Mike |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
Are the #1 & 2 braces transverse braces? Possibly UTB and a transverse? |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
Yes. #1 is slightly arched . # 2 is arched to fit the solera . IT'S NOT THE SAME ARCH AS THE FANS I use a radial bracing now-all braces below #2 are arched in the go-bar. same as trad. bracing Mc |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical builders - glueing flat bracing on a radius di |
THANK YOU. |
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