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Ok, this may be ridiculous, but I'm just thinking through it, so any help is appreciated.
As per another thread I recently got ahold of a Taylor guitar (which I recently gave back to the owner so he could get it fixed elsewhere), but because of the bolt on neck I noticed that the heel of the guitar was inset into the body a little bit. I really liked that aesthetic for some reason.. .maybe its something I'll get over ha.
But I just wondered, does anyone do this for a standard neck where the fingerboard extension is glued up like normal? What I mean is does anyone route out the outline of the heel joint so that it sits down into the body just a tad. Maybe it doesn't even matter... just throwing it out there.

No point imo...

Probably saves you from having to fit the heel! I don't know how you would do it efficiently without CNC tho...

Pat

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Pat

I have seen this on guitars with adjustable neck angles. Ryan Mazzocco here does that. I would think that you could do it if you like the aesthetics even without an adjustable neck. I wonder if setting the neck angle would be easier or harder. You couldn't floss the fit like you normally would but you also wouldn't be overly concerned with flawless mating of the heel and body.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Back in the early 1900's some factories used a joint like that where the heel was set into the body about a 1/4" and simply glued with hide glue...….

I’m my jumbled mind.... one would need the correct template set for both the body and the heel... it would fit into a neck jig like the lmii and one would set the router to the desired depth and just cut the shape. This would also keep the correct heel angle for the neck.


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Seems that would be a bit difficult to get to if one needed to !


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It would probably be about the same as steaming out a dovetail joint, except you wouldn't have the gap in the neck pocket.
I use that type of joint for my travel guitars, which are designed to have the neck removed. They are "bolt on", but the bolt passes through the outside of the heel. The heel has a metal reinforcement to spread the stress. You can make the neck angle adjustable by cutting the neck pocket to allow "oversetting" the neck and using a single bolt low in the heel. As you loosen the bolt the tension of the strings raise the action and hold it in place. If so desired you could add set screws to "lock" the action in place, but I have never found that to be necessary.
Stauffer used a pocketed neck heel of this adjustable angle necks, so it is not a new idea. It's more work than a simple dovetail so wasn't widely adopted.
A blast from the past:
https://www.mimf.com/library/Staufer_ad ... -2011.html

Yes I do it for tilt-neck guitars.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I've also done it for an adjustable neck. Not sure I see the point otherwise.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

And it was also done on guitars long before 1900 too. Certainly French romantic guitars had the shallow mortice joint, so that places it at more like 1800. It's basically the same as the violin neck joint that is done today.

Here's look at a Hauser with the adjustable neck angle and inset heel: https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47791&p=632106&hilit=hauser#p632106

There have been a number of these innovative neck joints over the years including Taylor guitars today. It's true that Taylor has taken much of the drama and expense out of neck resets but not everyone is a fan of Taylor's tone and offerings.

The guitar world is still very much dominated by traditionalists who value the simple and successful designs of the past such as a D-18, D-28 etc. And as you know these designs will need a neck reset in time.

Our position on neck resets has morphed, evolved, changed and in my case come full circle. I used to value some of the efforts, not all to make neck resets something of the past. But sadly many of the implementations look like someone with a hardware store fetish got drunk and went to town. You will always have the remnants of the argument against Taylor's original sin.... b*lt-on neck design too arguing that nothing sounds as good as a traditional HHG dovetail neck joint.

We are seeing neck resets as part of normal maintenance now and something to simply expect to have to do in time.

It seems that there will always be efforts to innovate but it just may be that most of the time, not always.... these things have been considered prior by some very bright folks and there are good reason why next joints such as the Hauser design aren't standard on today's instruments.

I guess I'm firmly old school now. Go figure.

Hesh wrote:
"It seems that there will always be efforts to innovate but it just may be that most of the time, not always.... these things have been considered prior by some very bright folks and there are good reason why next joints such as the Hauser design aren't standard on today's instruments."

I think one reason these neck joints haven't caught on is because they are more complicated than the traditional dove tail neck, which works fine and doesn't require any additional hardware. "Makers" in most cases are less concerned about ease of repairing things. "Normal maintenance" is a moving target. When I was a teenager rebuilding a cars engine at 100000 miles would have been considered "normal maintenance" (if it made it that far). Today a set of spark plugs can last that long. Often by the time a neck reset is done on a traditionally built guitar the saddle and bridge have been shaved down and the action is only fit for slide guitar. Resets are expensive and people try the cheaper solutions first (which is often to abandon the guitar entirely). Taylor guitars offer the buyer an opportunity to buy an instrument that can be repaired with a few well placed matchbook covers. In this I think they are to be applauded.
Now if they could just get the sound right.......

I looked at this post to find out about ways to attach necks. I used a HHG dovetail, and VERY sturdy dovetailed extension that "locked" it in. Then I read that necks have to be reset. Lots of luck with that one.

Then I saw that Stauffer machine head, and the cool look of the head, and now THAT one is high on my list. It looks very cool. Even the shape of the body.

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Why be normal?

You can buy a set of Stauffer style tuners from Rubner, or mod a set of regular machines. I used mando tuners, but 1/2 set of twelve string tuners would work better.

Yeah Clay, I checked those out on Rubner; they are made to order. I also found this site that has some cool stuff on it. Stauffer and the first Martin's are nearly identical.

http://www.earlymartin.com/stauffer.html

A Martin on the bottom of that page has edgework reminiscent of mine. Mine was far more trouble; I think. At least for someone who has never done that sort of thing.

I found a working drawing of one. The photo inside showed nylon strings with some sort of stopper on them. It was set up like a steel string. Is that very common?

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Why be normal?

Hi Ken,
A lot of the pre -1900's (and some post 1900) gut strung guitars had pin bridges which are now commonly associated with steel string instruments. This has lead to confusion and people stringing them with steel strings which they are not built to handle.
With gut strings you just knot the ends to make a "ball". The nylon strings in the picture can be hard to knot so they used some sort of "cup" to make a ball end. La Bella and Black Diamond make "folksinger" nylon strings with ball ends.