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Tuner screws
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52648		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Tuner screws
I just put the tuners on. Drilled to full depth with a 1/16 drill and no problem. If I ever need to get them off though..... Really, they can't make the heads a little deeper/stronger? As soon as it tightens up at the base they want to strip. It's done now but what do you do?
Author:  Smylight [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Tuner screws
Take for granted that every other screw might be different from the first one, even when packaged together, so take your time. Make sure you are using the right size bit to start the holes, excellent quality screwdrivers of appropriate size (no old and well-used jobs here), and rub a little soap on the threads to ease entry into the hard wood. That's a little trick from my grandpa. Never had a problem since I started doing this. They go in easily and I have not broken a screw head in a long time.


Pierre
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
Ken, what brand of tuners are you installing? I found years ago that quality tuning machine makers saved money by using cheap screws. The cheapo stuff was boxed up with good screws. I used to save them, and switch them. Nowadays you can buy stainless stuff in bulk from Allparts or StewMac, if you like. Unfortunately, companies with bean counters in charge will buy the cheap crap to get one more attaboy before they retire.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
They are Gotoh Joe tuners. Spellcheck! Uke. I have a small set of bits, but none of them really fit. No problem until they bottom.

To the fun part now, almost making sound. I think that I made my neck narrower, putting the outside E's on they are too close to edge. Ahh C!ose To The Edge, great song. I'll put that on and figure out how much to move them.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
I don't know if this contributed to the tightness you saw, but the last few sets of Gotoh tuners I've used have had screws like in the photo below. They aren't threaded all the way to the head and the length of the non-threaded part is greater than the thickness of the tab on the tuner that has the screw hole. So the non-threaded part of the shaft protrudes past the underside of the tuner. I found that out when I tried to put the first screw in on a set and the resistance to turning suddenly went way up and it stopped just short of being all the way in. I had to go back and enlarge the diameter of the first 1/16" of the pilot holes so there was room for the non-threaded part to fit. After that, the screws went all the way in with little resistance and they can be easily removed.

Attachment:
Tuner screws.jpg
Author:  Mike_P [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
a trick I've found to be invaluable is to use a sacrificial screw to initiate the threading of the hole, then pull it and replace it with a fresh one...those times I deal with brass (and even stainless as I find it to snap fairly easily sometimes) I use a steel screw with like thread pattern to start things off...in a really tough situation with really hard wood I'll many times use a #6 screw for a #8 and totally strip the wood out with it, the stick in the #8 sacrificial screw, then the final screw...yeah, #8's aren't on guitars and I doubt your going to find a smaller screw than used on tuners, but just a general FYI...what I really hate are slot head screws with improperly sized slots that vary among the same batch [headinwall]
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
I you break one the problem arises in how to get it out without dinging up the finish outside the tuner shadow. If you go to a hobby shop with a tuner screw you can find hollow brass tubing that just barely fits over the screw. Get some along with some solid rod that will fit inside the tube to stabilize it in your drill chuck.

Cut some teeth in the end of the hollow tube and chuck it in your drill and drill over the broken screw in REVERSE. It will grab the broken screw as it goes in and spin it out. The defect is typically obscured by the tuner plate.

Plus 1 for soap on the threads and drilling a hole in some scrap Mahogany to test the tightness. It seems I usually wind up with a 3/32" bit most of the time.
Author:  Brad Goodman [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
Ahh yes, tuner screws-the bane of my existence!
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
Quote:
I you break one the problem arises in how to get it out without dinging up the finish outside the tuner shadow. If you go to a hobby shop with a tuner screw you can find hollow brass tubing that just barely fits over the screw. Get some along with some solid rod that will fit inside the tube to stabilize it in your drill chuck.

Cut some teeth in the end of the hollow tube and chuck it in your drill and drill over the broken screw in REVERSE. It will grab the broken screw as it goes in and spin it out. The defect is typically obscured by the tuner plate.

Plus 1 for soap on the threads and drilling a hole in some scrap Mahogany to test the tightness. It seems I usually wind up with a 3/32" bit most of the time.


That is an old Dan Erlewine trick!
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
Drill pilot hole, use candle wax on the threads - soap attract water and can cause rust.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
Colin North wrote:
Drill pilot hole, use candle wax on the threads - soap attract water and can cause rust.
Same here except I use bee's wax. Been doing this for many years, not just luthiery. If done properly you will not tear up the screws. Biggest mistakes I see are pilot hole too small, screwdriver doesn't fit properly or screw not lubricated(wax). Small wood screws, especially those made from brass, have always been easy to mess up.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
I just need to take my screwdriver bit to the grinder, and grind the point off of it so it is more of a flat cross, not a cone. The heads on the screws don't go in that deep. Worn out punch? I worked at a forging plant, and they don't replace ANYTHING when they should. I doubt if they were the exception to the rule.

The tuners are very easy to turn. I only have it up to D now, but it is far easier to turn than my old classical with the dowel like things. Sorry, I don't know the terminology. The intonation is almost perfect with the adjustable saddle from StewMac. I don't understand the reason for what happens at the B, but they have it right. I only need to put an arch into the saddle to get the action right at the bottom. Then probably go over it again.
Author:  John Arnold [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
Get a quality set of number drills. 1-60. I use them almost every day. The right size not only depends on the screw, but the hardness of the wood. Mahogany is much softer than maple, so the pilot hole can be smaller. I also rub wax on the screw, and have several screwdrivers to choose from. A proper fitting screwdriver makes all the difference.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
Author:  Woodie G [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
Correct pilot hole to correct depth, pre-thread with steel screw, counterbore for unthreaded shank if necessary, beeswax for lube (seals the wood and will not absorb moisture), and - very important - use a guarded screwdriver tip for slotted screws (e.g., Waverly screws) or a new, high quality, correctly sized Phillips-head screwdriver (e.g., Wera or Wiha).

StewMac sells an appropriately-sized guarded flat-tip bit and handle...this is the same handle and bit provided in the full #3000 Guitar Tech Screwdriver Set. Here is the link for the handle and safe tip bit...about $13 separately.

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/T ... Parts.html
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
I've never heard of a guarded screwdriver. No slip. Cool. These are Phillips head. They seem to be more sensitive to size and form. The tips I have are ALL too pointy for them. I'll try grinding the tip off one of them. This set seems good, we used Wiha at work. I like when they say what size they are right on the handle. Maybe their form is more correct. Christmas is coming, so they can go on the wish list.

https://www.amazon.com/Wiha-26197-Precision-Phillips-Screwdriver/dp/B01L46TEN2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3T9KCUSEQJNX9&keywords=wiha+phillips+screwdriver+set&qid=1574356574&s=hi&sprefix=wiha+phi%2Ctools%2C184&sr=1-1

or these ones?

https://www.amazon.com/Wera-Kraftform-Phillips-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B015HUBA4M/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=wera+phillips+screwdriver+set&qid=1574357137&s=hi&sr=1-3

They might have a better grip on the tip?
Author:  Woodie G [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tuner screws
We use both Wera and Wiha tools...for the #1 and #2 Phillips, the laser-etched tips on the Wera tools are excellent, but on #0 or smaller, it is really just about whether the tool is new/minimally worn and properly made, or so rounded over from use that there is little in the way of grip...so we buy both the mini-Wera's and the long-bladed Wihas for those smaller sized tips. When I replaced my 'perfectly good' screwdrivers at home with a Wera set, I was amazed at just how bad my seemingly adequate Craftsman-branded set had become. For the same reasons that a dull chisel or knife is so unsafe (i.e., lack of control, need for excessive force to use), a worn screwdriver is just as much a hazard to the user and to the work. Nothing like those long-blade screwdrivers when adjusting a Tele saddle or ABR bridge.

Amazon Warehouse will often sell sets of both brands with some minor cosmetic defects for a 10%-25% discount...we have purchased enough sets of the Wiha 26192 long-bladed slotted and Phillips tipped to equip three benches...none cost more than $18 for the set through Warehouse, and on two of the sets, we could not find the flaw. Brand-new, these are still only $23 through Prime, and I ended up buying an additional set for the house...just heads and shoulders above anything else.
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