Official Luthiers Forum!

After posting my last question about small jointers , I did further research on the small ones , and some owners were not too happy. I hope to buy a commercial one.. in JAN 2020 I looked at the reviews on the 8 in spiral head jointers and they seem more suited to a commercial shop setting. I read the puff piece reviews , but they seem like shills for amazon. I want to hear from actually users what they are like . I dont believe that I can find and look at one here in the okc metro area. Thank you in advance for your responses and suggestions.

How about this & put a Byrd head in it.

https://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/tls ... 42266.html

And here's the head
https://www.holbren.com/Byrd_Tool_B4077

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I did exactly what Kevin suggests. I had an older Delta 8" long bed in good shape. I ordered the head directly from Byrd. They had a nice first time buyer discount. I replaced the bearings on the arbor (also from Byrd) too. The swap was easy.

There are few game changers in the shop but the Byrd heads were that for me. If you are old enough to remember when carbide tipped saw blades became affordable and you no longer had to change blades on a table saw several times a day - the Byrd heads are even better than that.

I can only speak to the Byrd design but the quality and performance can't be overstated IMO.

8 inch machines are the way to go, much more handy than 6" for flattening the face of a board.

They are incredibly quiet too.

I liked my retrofit jointer so much I immediately started saving to upgrade my planer. Went with a 15" Powermatic with the Byrd head. You can plane 12" oak and hear the dust collector over the planer under full load.

Figured wood I'd never consider jointing or planing can now be handled without much concern for tear out and the finish off these machines is incredibly smooth.

I used to change my jointer knives 2-3 times a year, I'm going on several years with the Byrd carbides and just thinking I might rotate the cutters for the first time soon.

I have no dog in the race here, I just love them. And I could go on. Upgrading an old American machine is a great option, vintage woodworking machines are crazy cheap these days.

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

Too schlep that jointer I would need a trailer, which I/m looking for, a used or new one . I found a delta 8in jointer in wichita abt 130 mi n of here but its 3 phase . I have 220. My 35 yr old chiu ting taiwanese jointer is frankly not worth retrofitting. I would prefer a older delta or powermatic. Since I do other things besides Loofiery . I would prefer to keep my old jointer as it is and get or retrofit another jointer, or purchase a new model with the shelix. Thanks for sharing your comments , and yes planing wild grain is difficult.

My jointer is 3-phase & I run it with a VFD (see below) that converts single to 3. It also soft starts the motor if you have issues with breakers popping.

https://www.factorymation.com/ac_drives_qs/TD200_Series

Some of the smaller VFD's can take 120V single phase input & output 220V 3-phase.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Kevin I looked at the link , you sent . So if the current jointer motor reads 220v at 10 amps. would the vfd be 440 v at 5 amps ? not sure as I have never used 440 before . ? as you mentioned the possibility of getting a used 8in jointer . The costs can add up 650 for the jointer 500 for the byrd shelix and 200 for the VFD . That would almost put it in the same range as the grizz at abt 1500. It would only make semse IMHO if you can get the jointer at a low price Thanks for your input

Yes, if the voltage doubles, the current is cut in half but there's no gain - you don't get something for nothing. Power = Voltage X Current.

You would still need to put twice the current into the VFD to get double the voltage out & half the current. The only benefit of this would be if you had to run a long line after the VFD and didn't want to invest in heavy gauge cable.

The purpose of the VFD is to generate 3-phase output from single phase input.

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

OK thank you kevin . for the explanation !

I just bought a Grizzly 15" helical insert planer and it was an aha moment sending the first few cirly maple boards through it. I just ordered a shelix head for my 8" Powermatic jointer as a result. Much better cut, half the noise, and no knives to fiddle with, perfect!

[quote="Ernie Kleinman"]Kevin I looked at the link , you sent . So if the current jointer motor reads 220v at 10 amps. would the vfd be 440 v at 5 amps ? not sure as I have never used 440 before . ?

Kevin is exactly right about the formula, but this only applies to power transformation, or converting a motor from 110v to 220v. With a vfd converting single-phase to three-phase, it's not a straight up calculation, because in three-phase power the lines are 120 degrees apart, not 180. In single-phase, line to neutral is 120v, and line to line is 240v, as you know. In three-phase, line to neutral is (for this example) 120v, but line to line is 208v.

My point? Don't worry about it too much, because the engineers of the vfd will have figured all that out. Size your vfd for the horsepower of the application. For calculation purposes, 1 hp is 746 watts.

Can anyone south of the border confirm for me whether nominal line voltage has been changed from 110/220 to 120/240, as it has in Canada?

It's worth a check of local line voltage to confirm, but I see what seems like a nominal 120/240VAC here and in the shop, and any of the occasions I've had to be concerned with line voltage elsewhere, it seems like the new normal as the local grids have been built out and we push more power further out from generation stations. This AM, my measured voltage is 122VAC with an ancient Fluke meter, while shop voltage the last time I checked (during the amplifier build-ups when 'Sparky' Morelli was torture-testing fuses) was 123VAC...the shop sits roughly 250 feet from an underground right-of-way and major tie-line between branches of two different power providers.

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For the times they are a changin'

- Bob Dylan

I brought about 6 large 220 v shop tools when we moved from vancouver bc , never had a problem using them in the usa, aside from chnaging the outlet male plugs. So If I can find a 440 v unit I will definitely upgrade to the byrd sheellix. Cleaning out the back end of our shop , there is a lot of potential wood that needs joining , and the current jointer which works well , gets dull knives after a while.