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Any advice welcome please.

I am trying Richlite for a fretboard but cutting the fret slots is a nightmare. I have machined fret markers and it machined really well although it was very hard on tools. I used the end cut off from the board to machine a string anchor for the bridge and that turned out quite nice. However, now I have started to cut the fret slots and my saw just jams in the slots.

I use my homemade cutting jig which I have used on Ebony and Wenge with no problems at all.

Has anyone used this stuff and can recommend best way to cut fret slots?

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Neat jig.
Firstly, how many boards has the saw cut now, sharpness is a possible issue as is lack of kerf making the cuttings jam up the saw.
Most of the saws like the one pictured as supplied are not terribly sharp.
Do you wax the blade? That sometimes helps. I use candle wax.
I have moved to a small table saw for slotting but still need a hand saw after radiusing.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

You mean besides Gibson?

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I was going to suggest wax too but usually when I notice that my fret saw needs some wax to help it along it means it needs to be sharpened too. But i have never used Richlite so I can't say for sure. But I would at least try the wax. Like Colin I use a candle, bust bite the saw into the candle to collect some wax.

Thanks Colin. Whilst I'll admit this isn't the best saw in the world it has only done 4 or 5 boards so is not in bad shape. I tried it on a piece of Wenge today and it coped with that quite well.



Thanks for the advice guys. I have used wax on 'normal' saws in the past but it never occurred to me to try it this time - must be my old age. Anyway, I tried a bit of wax on the blade and it helped a little but still quite hard going. I finally tried placing a thin strip of wood (about 2mm) under the fretboard beneath the line of cut and gently clamped either side to bend the board upwards. This helped open the slot to keep the blade free as I cut. Together with the wax it made it possible.

My verdict on Richlite is that it machines and finishes extremely well - hard as stone and smooth as silk. However, this is definitely a power tool kind of material. Not for extensive hand tool use unless your name is Arnold Schwarzenegger, so when it comes to Richlite, I won't be back. (at least not for fretboards).


Yes - and now I know why.

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Just a thought, could it be the possible run of the saw through the bearings squeezing the kerf? That would reduce the life of the saw.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Good theory and the blade does indeed jam due to there being little or no kerf on the teeth. However, it is made this way to allow the saw to cut very narrow slots for the frets. The lower bearing on the jig is a little higher than the teeth when in use. Just for info, the height of the top bearings is adjustable to allow the depth of cut to be set by stopping the spine of the saw from going any lower.

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I think Fred O. has it right, "My verdict on Richlite is that it machines and finishes extremely well - hard as stone and smooth as silk. However, this is definitely a power tool kind of material."

I've used Richlite for fretboards and bridges on my last 3 or 4 builds, and I'll continue, but only because I can do the bulk of the machining using a bandsaw and CNC router. It's very hard. It cuts very cleanly and machines beautifully, almost like metal, but hand work is a challenge. It does seem to hold frets well.

"Any advice welcome please."
Have LMII slot them for you.

Thanks Hans, you say it holds frets well. Just curious, do you feel you need to use glue with the frets or do they hold without it?

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Simple.

That fret saw Stewmac and other sell uses a .020" thick blade body with no tooth set, which is why it cuts many wood (not just richlite, but ebony and just about anything) so poorly. Saw probably cuts fine until the teeth disappears under the wood then it drags terribly. Is that what you are experiencing?

What I would get is a Japanese saw that uses .010" blade body with the teeth set to .020". They do exist but you need to look carefully because they have a wide variety of Dozuki blades for a wide variety of applications, with blade body thickness from .010" all the way up to 0.060" and a kerf all the way up to .080"!

Mind you most Japanese tools are in metric, so .010" is .3mm, and .020" is .5mm. Many Japanese saws will list the kerf width and just find any Dozuki saw with a kerf of .5mm and you will be fine. Your jig should work with it.

Or Stewmac sells the Japanese fret saw that is the same thing, but I find dozuki saws from ebay or elsewhere to be cheaper.

That Stewmac fret saw is really a Gent saw that Lee Valley, Woodcraft, and other retailers sell. They are intended to have a kerf width of about .032" because the teeth is set, and the blade body is .020". But you really can't use a gent saw for fret slots because it will be too wide. So what Stewmac and others do is have a custom made gent saw made without any set. Cuts ok when new because of burrs from sharpening but as soon as the burrs are gone, they won't cut at all. Oh and I should also say the gent saw was intended to cut on the push stroke, like most Western style saws. Japanese saws always cuts on the pull stroke. They must cut on the pull stroke or else the thin blade body most of them are made from will buckle.

I have a dozuki saw I bought for 20 dollars that worked great for fret slots out of the box.

Here is an example that should work:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/GYOKUCHO-RAZOR ... HIqnq_v04Q

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DOZUKI-SAW-240 ... d451a6f319

Note many Dozuki saws uses blade that is .010" thick but have a kerf that is wider, if it's more than .5mm then stone the side until the kerf is smaller.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Fred O. asked if I "need to use glue with the frets or do they hold without it?"

All the fretboards I've built, Richlite or not, have been bound. I've not used any glue on the frets I've installed in Richlite and have not seen any looseness, either when shaping the fret ends or, later, during use of the guitar. I have, however, found it necessary to use fret stock with a wider-than-typical tang but that's because I cut my fret slots using a 0.6mm end-mill on my CNC and the resulting slot is a bit wide for "standard" fretwire. (I use FW75 fretwire from LMI which they list as being 0.048" barb-tip-to-barb-tip.) With this combination, I find that pressing frets into Richlite requires more force than pressing them into natural wood, so I bought a 1 ton manual press from Harbor Freight and drilled the end of the toothed pressure bar to accept the shaft of the fret press that I'd previously used in my drill press. (I hope this makes sense.)

As an aside, I've noticed that Richlite blanks (fretboard and bridge) are a bit pricy from luthier suppliers. The Cutting Board Company (cuttingboardcompany.com) sells ¼" and ½" thick Richlite cutting boards in custom sizes for attractive prices. (I have no connection with The Cutting Board Company other than as a customer.)

Thanks for the information.

I think in future I will go for something like that but for now this saw will cope with 'normal' wood. It's just the Richlite that seems to be a problem.



I got the Richlite from a UK supplier who provide surface cutting boards and counter tops so I suspect they are similar to the company you mention. They sell fretboard blanks 8mm thick for £15 so not too bad price.

I had thought about cnc cutting but thought an end mill small enough wouldn't stand up to Richlite. I hadn't considered something like a 0.6mm end mill with wider fret wire but will consider this in the future. Thanks for the insight.

Fred.

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When I first tried cutting fret slots using a 0.6mm end mill in my CNC, the end mill broke off after about the third fret slot. To deal with that, I reduced the cutting speed to 4 mm/sec. with a 0.5mm path depth at 27,000 rpm to cut a 0.15" deep slot and shortened the end mill from 6mm to 3mm -- I did that by just clipping off the end mill with a diagonal cutter -- I thought that might cause a problem. It did not. I've now cut about 100 fret slots with the same 3mm end mill.

Thanks Hans, I'll bear that in mind for the future.

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