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More help with wood ID.
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Author:  guitarjtb [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  More help with wood ID.
Can you help me identify this wood. Not sure where I got it, but someone wrote "MBE" on it. I probably bought it from someone on this forum, but I can't find a record of it.
Attachment:
IMG_5971.jpg

Attachment:
IMG_5972.jpg
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
Whatever it is, its sexy...
Author:  guitarjtb [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
meddlingfool wrote:
Whatever it is, its sexy...

Yes it is. I found a similar set that sold on Allied's website listed as Malaysian Blackwood. That is what I have assumed it is, but I want to be sure before I list it for sale.
Author:  TRein [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
MBE=Malaysian Blackwood Ebony, perhaps?
Author:  guitarjtb [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
TRein wrote:
MBE=Malaysian Blackwood Ebony, perhaps?

That was my guess.
Author:  jshelton [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
I'd guess ziricote.
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
Definitely Malaysian blackwood, likely originally from Allied. They're the only place I've seen sell sets that look like this, and the number written on it looks like one of their serial numbers.
Author:  guitarjtb [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
DennisK wrote:
Definitely Malaysian blackwood, likely originally from Allied. They're the only place I've seen sell sets that look like this, and the number written on it looks like one of their serial numbers.

I noticed the similarity in the numbers when I looked at the set at Allied.
Author:  FlyingFred [ Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
Wow... l want it!
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
Definitely (what is commonly referred to as) Malaysian blackwood.

Pat
Author:  bcombs510 [ Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
I thought you all were wrong but too many smart folks weighing in. I would have bet money on ziricote.

How can you tell the difference? This looks like every set of ziricote I have from Hibdon. :)


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Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
It is very difficult to identify wood from a picture. The online Wood Database lists pertinent characteristics of many wood species so you can sometimes distinguish one species from another by those properties.
Malaysian blackwood, an "ebony" species is quite a bit heavier (72#/cu ft) compared to ziricote (50#/cu ft) so I would weigh it to help determine what it is. Although there is some variation in density from tree to tree, a 22# difference in average density is fairly significant and would probably be reflected in the sample in question.
Author:  wbergman [ Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
Because of the members noting that it is probably form Allied, send the photo to Allied and ask them.
Author:  guitarjtb [ Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
Clay S. wrote:
It is very difficult to identify wood from a picture. The online Wood Database lists pertinent characteristics of many wood species so you can sometimes distinguish one species from another by those properties.
Malaysian blackwood, an "ebony" species is quite a bit heavier (72#/cu ft) compared to ziricote (50#/cu ft) so I would weigh it to help determine what it is. Although there is some variation in density from tree to tree, a 22# difference in average density is fairly significant and would probably be reflected in the sample in question.

Check my math, but I think this is 72.69 #/CF.

I took average measurements on one of the back pieces:

23.75" X 7.547" X .145" Weight = 17.5oz

I admit this looks a lot like Ziricote, but I think Malaysian Blackwood is correct. Plus the "MBE" initials from the original seller seem to confirm.

Thanks to everyone.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
bcombs510 wrote:
How can you tell the difference? This looks like every set of ziricote I have from Hibdon. :)


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MB usually has some greenish olive color in it and sometimes a rust color. I've never seen that in ziricote. I have quite a stash of the former but have not handled much of the latter.

Pat
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
James Burkett wrote:
Clay S. wrote:
It is very difficult to identify wood from a picture. The online Wood Database lists pertinent characteristics of many wood species so you can sometimes distinguish one species from another by those properties.
Malaysian blackwood, an "ebony" species is quite a bit heavier (72#/cu ft) compared to ziricote (50#/cu ft) so I would weigh it to help determine what it is. Although there is some variation in density from tree to tree, a 22# difference in average density is fairly significant and would probably be reflected in the sample in question.

Check my math, but I think this is 72.69 #/CF.

I took average measurements on one of the back pieces:

23.75" X 7.547" X .145" Weight = 17.5oz

I admit this looks a lot like Ziricote, but I think Malaysian Blackwood is correct. Plus the "MBE" initials from the original seller seem to confirm.

Thanks to everyone.


For those who need help identifying wood the Wood Database is a good resource. They are adding new species and updating information all the time:

https://www.wood-database.com/
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
James:
I'm quite certain you have a rather nice set from Allied sold as "Malaysian Blackwood". Here's another from Allied and a photo they then used on their website for several years.
Attachment:
Malaysian Blackwood (Diospyros spp. ex Malaysia) 910201.jpg
Attachment:
Andrew's OM 632 small.jpg
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
But, what IS "Malaysian Blackwood"? The wood was introduced to us by talented Malaysian builder Jeffrey Yong at the 1998 GAL conference, but I always questioned the scientific name given as "Diospyros ebonasea". While there are over 700 recognized species in the genus "Diospyros", most occurring in tropical regions, "D. ebonasea" is NOT one of them. I asked Jeffrey directly where the scientific name came from, and he told me he got it from Malaysian forestry officials.

In Malaysia, there are a dozen or so species of Diospyros traded as "Kayu Malum", translated literally as "Night Wood" or "Blackwood". They vary a lot in colour and price is set accordingly, but no distinction is made locally with respect to species name. They all belong to genus "Diospyros" in the family "Ebenaceae". It's easy to see how the confusion arose; not being a botanist, Jeffery interpreted the information and it became accepted by tonewood dealers (including the change of spelling to "ebonasea"). "Ebenaceae" is a family consisting of 4-7 genera (depending on the taxonomist!) in the order Ericales.

There are many times when it is impossible to specify the exact species, as in the case of Malaysian Blackwood. The CORRECT way to refer to the scientific name is "Diospyros spp. ex Malaysia" (the "spp." is the botanical abbreviation for the Latin "species pluralis", meaning multiple species, and the "ex" is Latin for "from").

There are other instances in the tonewood business where sellers get creative with species names. Another example is Madagascar rosewood. There are multiple species of Dalberiga originating from Madagascar, but the exact species is often (usually?) not known, despite the claims made by dealers.
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
wbergman wrote:
Because of the members noting that it is probably form Allied, send the photo to Allied and ask them.

A good suggestion; unfortunately, the institutional memory of Allied Lutherie stayed on the west coast when the company was sold and moved to Vermont.


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Author:  A.Hix [ Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
I think what you have there is actually Mun Ebony, diospyros mun. (Pronounced moon) It is from the same region as malaysian ebony. I have cut plenty of sets from both woods, and I am pretty certain that what you have is Mun., which is more rare than what is commonly called malaysian blackwood.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
How do you distinguish Mun from Malaysian without analyzing the end grain? The other physical characteristics pretty well overlap. Even the end grain may be subject to interpretation.

From the wood database:
" the actual scientific name Diospyros ebonasea is, as of yet, completely unsubstantiated. It’s more than likely another known Diospyros species. Nonetheless, despite the semantic quirks of the wood’s common and scientific names, Malaysian Blackwood remains a remarkably beautiful hardwood with unique patterns and coloration that are in a class by itself."

Could they be the same tree?
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: More help with wood ID.
A.Hix wrote:
I think what you have there is actually Mun Ebony, diospyros mun. (Pronounced moon) It is from the same region as malaysian ebony. I have cut plenty of sets from both woods, and I am pretty certain that what you have is Mun., which is more rare than what is commonly called malaysian blackwood.

Have you ever seen mun with such a green hue, though? At least the set I bought from RC years ago is more neutral/reddish brown. But it does have similar ziricote-like stripes. Could be the color varies based on minerals in the soil.
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