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Is this a suitable guitar finish?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=52992		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  bionta [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Is this a suitable guitar finish?
I just ran across this finish and I'm curious about it. I know nothing about the chemistry of finishes so I hope that someone with that knowledge could give me a hint about the suitability of this stuff for acoustic guitars. The safety claims make it attractive and the marketing blurb indicates that it's hard enough for floor finishing. But is this likely to perform like Try Oil or other drying oil finishes? Or will it be more like a polyurethane film finish? Protective enough? Too soft and stretchy / sound dampening?

https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/i ... lear+Satin
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
bionta wrote:
I just ran across this finish and I'm curious about it. I know nothing about the chemistry of finishes so I hope that someone with that knowledge could give me a hint about the suitability of this stuff for acoustic guitars. The safety claims make it attractive and the marketing blurb indicates that it's hard enough for floor finishing. But is this likely to perform like Try Oil or other drying oil finishes? Or will it be more like a polyurethane film finish? Protective enough? Too soft and stretchy / sound dampening?

https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/i ... lear+Satin


idunno :D I dunno about the finish but I just wanted to say hi to my friend and fellow kidney stone survivor. I hope that you are doing great.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
Make a few test panels and report back ;)
Author:  bionta [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
Hesh wrote:
bionta wrote:
I just ran across this finish and I'm curious about it. I know nothing about the chemistry of finishes so I hope that someone with that knowledge could give me a hint about the suitability of this stuff for acoustic guitars. The safety claims make it attractive and the marketing blurb indicates that it's hard enough for floor finishing. But is this likely to perform like Try Oil or other drying oil finishes? Or will it be more like a polyurethane film finish? Protective enough? Too soft and stretchy / sound dampening?

https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/i ... lear+Satin


idunno :D I dunno about the finish but I just wanted to say hi to my friend and fellow kidney stone survivor. I hope that you are doing great.


Hi Hesh! Happy to say, no kidney stones since ... I think it was 2010. Just drinking a lot. Guinness works. (Water too.) Hope all is great with you too.
Author:  bionta [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
jfmckenna wrote:
Make a few test panels and report back ;)


That's the right idea I guess. I'd have to buy the stuff first tho.
Author:  CarlD [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
I've been looking for something similar that would be an easy finish on an upright bass I'm reassembling and finishing. I have been using nitro lately on guitars but this creature is too big for my finishing room. Most of the wipe on products in recent posts are not easily available in CA. Idea's?
Author:  bionta [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
CarlD wrote:
I've been looking for something similar that would be an easy finish on an upright bass I'm reassembling and finishing. I have been using nitro lately on guitars but this creature is too big for my finishing room. Most of the wipe on products in recent posts are not easily available in CA. Idea's?


Hi Carl, maybe you’re just the guy to test this one. [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES] well anyway, you seem to have the need. I should point out there is also another “safe”, low VOC finish on that web site:

https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/i ... -on+Finish

Both of these seem like the kind of finish that might be available in CA but I live on the other coast so don’t take my word for it.
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
Sounds more suitable for fingerboard treatment than whole instrument finishing. Have you ever felt pure walnut oil finish? My guess is it will be similar to that, followed by a coat of paste wax. Should keep dirt out of the wood micro-structure, but that's about it. The hardness will depend entirely on the wood that it's applied to.
Author:  B. Howard [ Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
Not anything I would recommend for musical instruments.....
Author:  bionta [ Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
Thanks gentlemen. That's exactly what I needed to know.
Author:  bionta [ Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
DennisK wrote:
Sounds more suitable for fingerboard treatment than whole instrument finishing. Have you ever felt pure walnut oil finish? My guess is it will be similar to that, followed by a coat of paste wax. Should keep dirt out of the wood micro-structure, but that's about it. The hardness will depend entirely on the wood that it's applied to.


Come to think of it, I have. It felt great under the fingers, but felt and looked almost like no finish at all.
Author:  rbuddy [ Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
The quest for a guitar worthy finish that's easy to apply without a spray booth is something a LOT of us are waiting for and you can put me on top of the list.

At least with a house that's over a hundred years old and under a constant state of remodeling, I have plenty of wood to finish with all the quarts and gallons of super duper new finishes that just didn't live up to expectations. KTM-9 anyone?

Osmo has been getting a lot of buzz for floors and furniture and even some electric guitars. Haven't heard of anyone using it for acoustics yet, if anyone has, links would be nice.

At least Osmo is talking about dealing with oily exotics and mentions guitars. That's a good sign in R&D.

https://osmo.ca/2017/08/11/how-to-finish-exotic-woods/

I'd like to test some but it doesn't seem to be readily available and it's fairly expensive.
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
I'm pretty sure that is mostly used as a wood floor finish. I used it client supplied once on a floor and it had a most unusual application process and characteristics. It left a good end result.

Top, a hard no. Back and sides, maybe. Neck, could be really nice. As mentioned. Test panels.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
Traditional oils are known for soaking in without necessarily forming a good protective film. They tend to add damping and mass, which we don't want, and not protect the wood in ways that we need. Of course, I have no idea as to what sorts of alchemy they've done with this stuff, so you're on your own in terms of figuring out whether it's suitable as a guitar finish.

A friend points out that when there are a lot of ways of doing something, it's a sign that either everything works, or nothing works. In the case of guitar finishes it's the latter. Figure out what you need the finish to do, and what drawbacks you're willing to live with to get that, and take it from there.
Author:  Conor_Searl [ Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
I have very minimal experience with wood finishing, but I've been using this on electric guitars. I like how resonant it leaves the instrument. It makes the instrument feel "woody" and "organic" and it works for what I like, but its not durable. Probably just a bit more protected than bare wood. Having said that I don't really find nitro overly durable either.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is this a suitable guitar finish?
I've been using a floor varnish for finishing guitars. It's noticeably harder than nitro, and tougher; more likely to dent than to scratch. It goes on thin, and I can end up with a coating that's not much thicker than a good FP finish; around .0025" thick. That's about half the thickness of a normal sprayed nitro finish. No finish, no matter how tough or hard, can offer much protection against dings at that thickness.

Shellac is, in fact, a fairly hard resin, and because it's cross-liked it's also one of the tougher ones. FP suffers in part simply from the thinness of the finish coat, as said, and partly from the fact that shellac is soluble in alkaline water solutions, which, for some people, is sweat. There's not much you can do about the chemistry except wait it out. Shellac continues to cross link as it ages, and eventually becomes practically insoluble in anything. All you need to do is wait 75 years or so. Right about the time the chemically unstable nitro is falling off other folk's instruments, yours will be looking their best....
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