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Snakewood build
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53059		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Snakewood build
I have been a member of this forum for a long time, but never got into the habit of spending regular time here. I was reminded of OLF today as member Daniel Oates alerted me to the Catalpa arch top he is currently making. He did this because he was aware that I have made a couple of all Catalpa instruments, a guitar and a Uke. I have made a number of other with Catalpa back and sides.

Over the years I have used about 30 unusual or unknown woods for acoustic guitars but never Snakewood. In fact I would have guessed that Snakewood for a guitar is unlikely to exist as the raw material I've seen is both small (6" diameter) and gnarly. And yet . . . I acquired a set of snakewood. Unfortunately, the back was pre-templated weirdly, fitting nothing in my template locker, and to compound things the sides are only 3 1/2" wide. At first I thought a classical, but the template is too far off no matter how creative I get, no conservative classical geek is ever going to bite.

So I am making a shallow steel string with a L00 inspired template (narrow upper bout) but 14 1/4" wide, so in Martin's 00 ball park. I am thinking of it as a "Couch Noodler" since it isn't going to fit anyone's expectations of a concert guitar. The top is my next to last example of the "original" Carpathian that came into the market 10 or 12 years ago. Wide grained, stiff as all get out, yet stunningly light in weight.

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Since I think the template relates visually to the L00, I used a L00 inspired rosette as well. It is made up of a lot little strips, and was much harder to wrestle into place than I would have liked.

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But I got it there.

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Being somewhat unfamiliar with this forum, if I posted this in the wrong area, just say so, I'll move it.
Author:  SnowManSnow [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
It’s in the right place as far as I’m concerned! Hi Bruce. I recognize you from AGF:) hope you do more updates to the build soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Snakewood = cool.
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
If a week goes by w/o an update, your chosen representative is welcome to email me an alert; it will mean my OLF habit remains undeveloped. ;)

This back went down to .058" before it seemed right to me. I am relieved to have the braces on as it is less likely to be broken by my embarrassingly disrespectful handing. Even at .058, this is an unusually heavy back.

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Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
That's great looking stuff. It would be great to have you stick around Bruce. Look forward to seeing this one.
Author:  Ruby50 [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Recently looked up the weights of woods for another project. Turns out Snakewood is on the Wood Data Base top ten heaviest list at 76 lbs/ft3, a little heavier than Ironwood and about the same as Leadwood - where do Titaniumwood and Aluminumwood come in there?

Brazilian Rosewood is a remarkably light 54 lbs/ft3

https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/top-ten-heaviest-woods/

Nice looking back - .058" is pretty thin, sounds like a ukulele back

Ed
Author:  George L [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Well, this just made my day. bliss

So nice to see you posting here, Bruce.
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
At this point in my career I have both a lot to share, AND the time to do so. I too hope I stick around, it is good citizenship and makes it easier to love myself. I mean that in the least disgusting way.
Author:  Brad Goodman [ Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Hi Bruce,

You bought this set from me many years ago on ebay......

I am glad to set it is being built into a beautiful guitar!

Regards,
Brad
Author:  Bob Orr [ Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Hi Bruce had the pleasure of playing one of your Koa guitars at the American Guitar Company in Brighton in England a few years ago and it was stunning. Bob
Author:  Ernie Kleinman [ Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
. Hi bruce, dont know if you remember me . ? we met through M dunn in van, bc.You were just getting started in the early 70/s. I just schlepped a piece of snakewood purchased in torrance ca 30 yrs ago to my garage . It is super heavy. I have some of that carpathian spruce from romania as well. Looking forward to seeing your build results . I may have a go at it . Is that a small 17 in size martin ? style gtr ? . How thick are the sides .050 ?? thank you. Looks like it will be super cool gtr !!
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Brad Goodman wrote:
Hi Bruce,

You bought this set from me many years ago on ebay......

I am glad to set it is being built into a beautiful guitar!

Regards,
Brad


Thanks for the reminder, Brad. It has become the distant past for me. Do you know what glue was used to glue the plate?
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Ernie Kleinman wrote:
. Hi bruce, dont know if you remember me . ? we met through M dunn in van, bc.You were just getting started in the early 70/s. I just schlepped a piece of snakewood purchased in torrance ca 30 yrs ago to my garage . It is super heavy. I have some of that carpathian spruce from romania as well. Looking forward to seeing your build results . I may have a go at it . Is that a small 17 in size martin ? style gtr ? . How thick are the sides .050 ?? thank you. Looks like it will be super cool gtr !!


The template is a one off, so far. L00ish in my mind,but smaller. The sides have a small thin spot at .054 (as supplied) but are mostly .065". I may change that.

Sadly, for me, I don't yet recall you. Good memory on your part! How long and wide is your chunk?
Author:  Brad Goodman [ Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Bruce Sexauer wrote:
Brad Goodman wrote:
Hi Bruce,

You bought this set from me many years ago on ebay......

I am glad to set it is being built into a beautiful guitar!

Regards,
Brad


Thanks for the reminder, Brad. It has become the distant past for me. Do you know what glue was used to glue the plate?



It is Titebond original.
Author:  Ernie Kleinman [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Bruce , hi yes . I do remember you . it was a 2 nd story shop in gastown van that michael shared , with tim hobrough, and a harpsichord maker named turner. Snakewood is 3.5in tapering to 2 7/8 in over a 33 in L thickness is 1 1/8 in purchased 30 yrs ago from eisenbrand hdwds in torrance ca, The owner passed in the late 90/s and his son took over . I am still kicking myself for not buying the BRW sets he had for $50 in 1991. He had at least 100 sets or more . Best regards ernie
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Yes, Ernie, we all kick ourselves over lack of foresight . . . and lack of funds for some of us. Fortunates for me, I started to be successful when there were still some good deals, and for better or for worse, I am sitting on more tonewood than Have used in the first 50 years of my nearly full-time career.

I made and used fairly typical outside molds for the 20 years of my career, which now looks like lost time to me, though of course it is just part of the process. My molds got thinner and thinner, becoming one piece of 3/4" plywood, and then I stopped using them. This has freed me up to make any template I want w/o time penalty, and to slowly morph my aesthetics rather than being married past choices by not wanting make yet another mold. When I dropped the mold the quality of my results simply took off. I can say that about other pivot points in my work too,bu none areas clearly dramatic and on going as this one.

Is it still called a cutaway when it goes in before the actual sides?

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Most of my recent work (30 years) features scalloped braces. This is the rare exception. Though I have not built a snakewood guitar before, I expect it to be relatively dark sounding because as a violinist, I find Snakewood bows to be MUCH smokier than Pernambuco bows. Yes, that's reach, but it is what I expect. My few straight braced guitars have more treble as compared to my scalloped work.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Bruce, I build on the top like you do and just started using peons. Prior to that I was doing the Cumpiano method of attaching the linings to the sides first but I always found it troublesome. The peons take longer but I don't sweat it.

Do you shape each peon to take to the arch of the top or is that so insignificant it's not worth it? Also assuming you use HHG how long do you hold the peon in place till you move on to the next one?

Regards.
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
jfmckenna wrote:
Bruce, I build on the top like you do and just started using peons. Prior to that I was doing the Cumpiano method of attaching the linings to the sides first but I always found it troublesome. The peons take longer but I don't sweat it.

Do you shape each peon to take to the arch of the top or is that so insignificant it's not worth it? Also assuming you use HHG how long do you hold the peon in place till you move on to the next one?

Regards.


I cut my peone (the plural of peone, I believe) a degree and a half over square, so the extremes are sure to contact. It is also important that they are quartered on the long face as it minimizes cupping from the HHG. They grab nicely when smooshed into placed require no further clamping. So far, there is no evidence that contradicts that sentence, and that's hundreds of guitars later.

Successful Mold-less construction relies on sides bent as near perfectly as possible, if symmetry is important, and it Oisin the marketplace, IMO. Here is the bass side right out of my "Fox Bender" where used the L00 form I midyears ago. I have found that the "Martin" 000 form I made works equally well for a 00 and an 0. This sides not glued, merely held by two spring clamps and the waist located by the Klemsia. I admit this is above average for me, surprising for a unique shape.

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Forgive me, please, if I seem to proselytize, I really do think mold-lless building is under exposed.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Proselytize away, I, for one, really like to see other methods especially from experienced builders.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Wow. I had a post written, ate diner, and since the browser had to be woke up, I finished the post, and clicked submit, and I had to sign back in. Everything gone.

Oh well. The main thing was that I like the wide grain spruce, and that the only time I've seen snakewood, every piece was split. Bummer.

And this build that Clay posted months ago of someone in Spain is one of my favorites. No mold. No nonsense.

https://youtu.be/biWk-QLWY7U
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Bruce Sexauer wrote:

This sides not glued, merely held by two spring clamps and the waist located by the Klemsia. I admit this is above average for me, surprising for a unique shape.

Image




So do you glue the sides to the blocks after the peones?
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
The blocks are glued to the towpath GREAT care to align them fo symmetry.

Then sides are carefully trimmed for exact length and glued to the blocks.

A hodgepodge of clamps are needed to hold the sides well enough to push on the peone w/o budging them:

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And the peone in place:

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Author:  Ernie Kleinman [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Bruce , that is a different take on building. Dont think I/m ready for a moldless build yet . Here in central okie dokie , the weather is all over the map, One day hot an muggy, the next dry cold, and the dehumidifier doesnt kick in. I feel safer having my sides in a mold as they are super thin .060 and sometimes laminated. and for the ukes if they are hdwd like pecan , tamarind etc . They cannot bend vy easily at .085 with all those tight bends only at .060, will they bend, especially santo dominigo mahogany , balsamo or tamarind. I/ve only used the peones on a few builds. I use local e , red cedar or basswood or willow. Which I harvest myself. I also played 2 nd vln in the high school orchestra in MTL . PQ. I/ve only used pernam and brazilwood bows , so have no experience with snakewood .. Can you explain what you meant by smokier? This snakewood is heavier wood than pernam, so I/m guessing that you can push harder on the bow due to snakewoods weighing more and being more dense , Thank you so much for all the pictures . It is very informative. and interesting to see how others approach their work !!
Author:  G.Cummins [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
Hi Bruce,

It's fascinating to me to see how you build your guitars. I have wondered with your no mold assembly, assuming you put a radius or dome into your Soundboards and Backs do you radius the sides to match?

With the mold method I've always assembled the sides in the mold then 'drive the bus' with a radius dish to get it right.

Cheers.
Glenn.
Author:  Bruce Sexauer [ Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Snakewood build
The sides can be viewed as making only 3 points of contact with the dish: the ends and the waist which is the deepest point. I do view it so, and that makes it pretty easy to calculate a "step" at the waist, which I create by running the sides over a jointer leaving a few inches at the waist untouched. Interestingly, a narrower guitar has a deeper "step". To late to illustrate on this one, maybe next time.

Smokey, in the context of a fiddle bow, means dark and non-intrusive. I own one and have played another, and they have it in common.

At this point, the ribbons are in, the cutaway reinforcement is coved, and the side-port reinforcement has been clamped/glued in place. I have "driven the bus" to receive the back, and will drive again after the lining is on. I do not usually put a port in unless asked, but this guitar is intended for couch noodling, and the port seems like the right move.

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