Official Luthiers Forum!

Which do you prefer and why?

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I use PVC/ABS bindings primarily because of cost. I can buy a 300 foot roll of edge banding which will make 600 feet of binding for $70(USD). This brings the cost down to about 12 cents a foot. It is a bit tougher than celluloid and is available in a wide range of sizes and colors. It- may- be more long lasting and durable, but at this point either will outlast me, so that is not a great concern.
I do like the look of celluloid, and it is a somewhat traditional material for bindings and is a more convincing imitation of the ivory and tortoise shell materials it replaced. I was recently given some and will use it on a future instrument, and maybe that will change my mind.
Since I am a hobby builder and my instruments don't command high prices (when I do sell them) cost of materials is always a consideration. With the materials and construction techniques I use I can generally keep the material costs down to <$100 + tuners and still make a nice quality instrument.

I mostly use wood binding and never really paid attention to plastic, but recently I have had three old guitars - lovely jazz boxes from the 1950's that have had serious binding issues. The binding shrinks, pulls back from inside curves and in many places is just crumbling to pieces. I don't know the composition but I do know that whatever it is, I wouldn't want to use it on one of my guitars.

Here is an example of what Freeman is describing. These pictures show celluloid binding on an early 1950s Epiphone Zenith.

This needs to be repaired by replacing the binding and finishing the new binding with nitro. It's not a complex repair but there are things that can go wrong and it takes a skilled person to do it properly. The problem can be prevented by using a material other than celluloid.

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

I find plastic to be really quirky....

I have seen many,many 60 plus years old guitars (Es-335's,les pauls fenders) where the binding is as tight as the day it was put on the instrument and I have seen many, many 20 year old guitars where this is catastrophic failure-some of mine are in that group...
as I have stated before, I used ABS with proper technique and used the LMI blue tube glue....

i have been using duco cement for 20 years with no issues

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

On another site, there was recently a discussion about shrinking celluloid--in this case MOTS on lap steel guitars. There are plenty of old lap steels with badly shrinking MOTS coverings, but plenty of others that have held up fine. Sort of like some Kluson celluloid tuner buttons crystalize and fall apart while others don't.

Someone on the list mentioned that, at least in the case of the celluloid coverings on lap steels, accordions, etc., there were at least two completely different formulas in use back in the 30s/40s/50s. One supplier out of the Chicago area and the other out of the New York area. The Chicago celluloid seems to be the one most commonly in bad shape after the decades while the New York celluloid is generally OK.

Could be the same thing with bindings. I've had plenty of old guitars with celluloid bindings that are just fine after many decades, but I've had others that have shrunk/cracked to the point of needing replacement.

Dave