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Brass powder inlay help
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53350		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Brass powder inlay help
I am working on an inlay idea that has my “logo” very small in a brass disk as one of the elements. My original plan was to cut a circle out of thin brass stock, cut the logo out and fill the negative space with CA and wood dust. I am unable to cut the logo out of the center of the brass due in (large) part to my lack of skill and part the very small size required.

I decided to go with plan B. I ordered some brass powder. I drilled out the disk area with a forstner bit and made a small logo of wood. I glued the logo in the hole and filled the space with brass powder. When I went to flood the brass powder with thin CA, the powder would not wet out. The glue balled up on the surface, ran all over the place and only soaked into some small areas of the powder. When all was said and done I had a bunch of loose brass powder everywhere and a few spots in the circle that were actually filled with brass and CA.

I routed out the mess and tried filling the space with epoxy and brass powder. By the time the epoxy cured the brass had settled towards the bottom of the cavity and all I was left with was an ugly greenish circle.

I routed it all out again and tried to pre-wet the brass powder. First I tried to mix it in water. The brass also resisted the water and would not mix. I used a drop of dish detergent to emulsify the water and was able to get it to mix I to a putty key consistency. I packed that into the cavity but it still would not accept any CA.

I’m almost out of brass powder and only have one failure left before I have to scrap the rest of the inlay elements on this veneer and start from scratch. :( any advice?
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
Have you tried building it up in layers? What type of brass powder are you using? With the bronzing powder I have from Mohawk you have to do layers and "stir" the CA into the powder to wet it out (use a toothpick). Once it is wet out stop stirring, or the powder will stick to the pick.
Bronzing powder is usually spread on in thin layers and then finished over. one added benefit of building up thin layers is the powder wont settle out . Polishing the powder and retaining the brilliance seems difficult, so you may want to fill to just below the surface and then use CA only to bring it up flush to the surface - similar to what some do for shell.
Here is a quick mix of powder and CA (it seems very hard):
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
Sounds like the brass powder is not clean. Does it have oil on it, or other chemical to prevent clumping? I have no idea how brass powder or any metal powders are produced for the market. Perhaps that deserves looking into....
Author:  Ruby50 [ Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
Here is an option - gold glitter (or any color) from a craft store in epoxy. I copied this from early 30's Gibsons, and Kim Walker's black Nick Lucas for John Thomas. I wrote to Kim and he generously gave me his procedure for making it look good.

Ed
Author:  CarlD [ Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
I've had good luck with mica powders mixed in clear epoxy (lots of colors available) from craft/jewelry making stores or Amazon. Looks like what Ed shows above.
Author:  RusRob [ Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
You might want to check the Rio Grande web page. They have all sorts of options for what you are looking for.

Here are some relevant links to their site but they have a ton of product that may be of interest.

Epoxy Resin

http://www.riogrande.com/category/metals/base-metals/brass#q=colores%20epoxy%20resin&t=products&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=108

Brass Leaf

[url]http://www.riogrande.com/category/metals/base-metals/brass#t=products&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=36&f:categoryfilter=[Metals,Base%20Metals,Brass][/url]


Metal Clay

[url]http://www.riogrande.com/category/metals/metal-clay/copprclay#t=products&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=36&f:categoryfilter=[Metals,Metal%20Clay][/url]

Cheers,
Bob
Author:  RusRob [ Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
Bryan,
Sorry the last 2 links don't show up as links... Not sure why but I can't seem to get them working.
Just copy & past into your browser (minus the [url] at the beginning and end of the line.

Hope this helps,
Bob
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
I tried several different things including more practice with the jeweler’s saw. Eventually, I decided to etch the brass. My wife helped me print out a vinyl decal to serve as a resist. It worked out okay. With more practice, I think this could be a workable technique.

Attachment:
AB286551-0FE6-49BB-A000-AD096F02AA9C.jpeg
Author:  Aaron O [ Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
I know this may be a little late, but since you’re still gonna work on it -

If you can cut out the logo in wood, you can cut out the negative space in brass. Just don’t cut the brass circle first. Pierce the brass, cut the “route” for the logo in the brass, inlay the logo in the brass, then cut the circle.

It’s a natural tendency to “cut the outside” first. Sometimes, I have to revisit the “process” rather than focusing on the “design”. Most of my inlays are done by cutting all the pieces, then puzzling them together. There have been a few instances where I’ve had to start from the inside out.

Example:
For your logo, cut the two small brass pieces on the inside, cut the holes for those pieces in wood, and inlay them into the wood.
Cut the outside of the wood logo. Cut the inside “route” for the logo in the brass, and inlay the logo.
Cut the outside of the brass.

The benefit of doing it “backwards” is you’re basically cutting small pieces out of large pieces.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
I like the look of the etched brass. Less fiddly bits that can come loose. I think etching is a natural way to decorate metal and allows for greater detail in the work.
What is the blue material in the "ribbon" inlay in the peghead?
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brass powder inlay help
I tried several times to cut the negative space out of the brass. I just could not get it done well enough. I even tried cutting the full outline and soldering the inner lines back in. I'm just not up to the task right now.

Clay, the blue material in the stripes is an acrylic pen turning blank. I cut thin strips, heated them and pressed them between a jig I made with dowels offset on each side to press the waves in evenly. The "white lines are a dozen or so 0.007" plane shavings laminated together in the same jig. Then the three layers were glued together in that jig with clamping force keeping them (mostly) consistent.
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