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Fir classical - a challenge
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53508		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Fir classical - a challenge
Like many of you, I'm bored. I haven't been inspired to build a guitar for a long time, but with everything else going on it seems like that would be a good use of time right now. I really don't need another guitar, but I keep thinking...

Finally in a moment of weakness I decide to build something. But why not make it a little more challenging than just buying a big box of wood and building another OM or 00 or whatever. So I set some rules

- I haven't built a classical for almost 15 years, I would build a classical. Since I have the '37 Hauser Sr plans I would build something like that.
- I have some very nice woods stashed away. I would build out of wood I have. In fact, could I build it without spending any money?
- Some time ago someone gave me a bunch of straight grained Douglas fir. I've never seen a fir guitar. Why not build one?
- I would build it with hand tools. Well, when I realized that I didn't have some of the hand tools I would need (egg beater drill, binding grimil...) I decided that didn't make any sense at all. How about if I use the minimum of power tools. In fact, how about if I only use tools and methods described in Cumpiano and Natelson's book, which I used to built my first guitar 15 years ago.
- I usually build in a mold but this is a Spanish guitar so I'll build in the Spanish method. That's the way C&N do it.
- I'm lazy and use modern glues. I'll do this one entirely with hide.
- I'm lazy and use modern finishes. I'll do this one with shellac.

I figure that if its a total disaster, either the build or the final product since I won't be out any money it won't matter. I might learn something.

It looked like this when I started

Attachment:
IMG_6386-1.jpg


I dug thru boxes of wood and found a piece of "Sipo" that I don't know why I have but it would make a neck. I have enough spruce and mahogany for braces, even have a pile of rosewood binding wood and some reverse kerfed linings (when I buy something like that I usually buy enough to make the order worth while - if I need four of something I might buy ten). I've got a few scraps of Brazilian rosewood that I'll use for rosette and headplate and heel cap (I can't resist).

The wood is interesting - it is the flooring from the gymnasium of a local school. The school was built in the 1950's so the wood is close to 70 years old. The grain is as straight as I've seen, I debate between using it just for the top, just for the back and side or for all of it. I decide all of it. The fir was thicknessed to 1/8 inch, I hand plane it to what I want for the plates. Bend the sides on the hot pipe, brace the top

Attachment:
IMG_6451-1.jpg


I won't bore you with the building stuff other than to say it was very tempting at times to reach for some power tool that I had placed off limits. I did decide that since C&N mentioned a drill press for tuner holes and said that one way to do binding was with a router that I could do those too.

This was my first attempt at a French polish and it probably isn't a very good one. However I think it does suit the wood - a nice warm amber glow with a medium amount of shine - if I ever do another FP I'll spend a little more time studying it before I jump in. But this is fine.

I did have to buy tuners and a couple of sticks of fret wire (I have lots of jumbo but no medium) and a pint of Everclear. Other than that it all came out of the scrap bin.

Attachment:
Top 1-1.jpg


Attachment:
Top 2-2.jpg


Attachment:
Back 3-1.jpg


In case anyone is interested in how fir sounds as a tone wood, I am really quite impressed. I'm not a classical player but the guitar really does have good sound across all of the strings and up the neck. It is loud, very light weight and I'm going to call it a success. I have a friend who is a very good classical player and instructor, I want him to play it and I will record it and post clips.

A second comment is that I recently got a copy of Alan Lambert's spectrum analyzing software and I did use it during the voicing part of the build. The frequency spectrum gave me a degree of confidence that the guitar might actually sound OK. I'm looking forward to using it on future builds.
Author:  DanKirkland [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
I love it! Looks great sir
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
Good stuff Freeman, I have a project looming as well, probably using all HHG for most tasks, except the FB.
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
Nice looking guitar, look forward to hearing it. Someone sent me a fir soundboard.It is heavy and stiff. I'm thinking it might work on a dreadnought.
Author:  bcombs510 [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
Looks lovely.

I’m curious what procedures you found most challenging doing with hand tools only? I had spent a whole bunch of time making jigs for pre-shaping braces and recently went back to just gluing up as rectangles and shaping fully by hand. I’m glad I went “backward” there because I am enjoying the work. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
Wow! That's a great looking instrument. The shape is not off the plans though is it? It looks unique.
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
bcombs510 wrote:
Looks lovely.

I’m curious what procedures you found most challenging doing with hand tools only? I had spent a whole bunch of time making jigs for pre-shaping braces and recently went back to just gluing up as rectangles and shaping fully by hand. I’m glad I went “backward” there because I am enjoying the work. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


By far the hardest was thicknessing the plates. They came to me at 0.125, I had to reduce them by hand. My planing chops are pretty so-so.

Attachment:
IMG_6388-1.jpg


Everything else wasn't that hard - I don't have a fancy shop and I mostly work with hand tools. I've always done my braces that way, shape 'em on the guitar. One thing that was kind of hard however was the mental shift - it is so easy to just walk over to the band saw or safe-t-planer or belt sander - I would have to stop and think "get out the gents saw...."
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
jfmckenna wrote:
Wow! That's a great looking instrument. The shape is not off the plans though is it? It looks unique.


Its close to the plans but honestly, when I bent the sides I used my 00 mold - it is nearly the same shape. I also pulled the upper bout in slightly when I was fitting the sides to the slots in the heel
Author:  Freeman [ Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
As promised, a friend playing one of his composition on the fir guitar

https://soundcloud.com/user-674465979-947562921/the-color-red
Author:  Ruby50 [ Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
Freeman - excellent choice of music for demonstration and the guitar sounds very balanced and crisp. Well done. The color of the wood turned out nice and the appointments are simple and effective. Why a classical - because you have a friend that can play great stuff on it?

Did you do the entire neck by hand? Dovetail or M+T joint? Did you get any splinters in your hands? How many pieces in the top and back - looks like the boards you re-sawed were pretty wide for a floor? I like your jig for holding the top during brace shaping. Do you have a jig for the slot head - did you do it by hand?

Looks like a fun project and I agree it is a success

Ed
Author:  George L [ Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
A success indeed! Well done. [:Y:]
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
I do like hearing clips. I can hear more differences in guitars than in violins. I like the way it sounds. I agree with Ed that it has a nice crisp, but well balanced sound between the lows and highs. I like the somewhat different look of the outline too. It came out nice.

Years ago I had a program developed for Japanese flutes that gave fft analysis as you played into the computer. It worked great. It won't work on my Mac. Now I have to rely on ears, and sometimes ears trick you! I can't even get Garage band to record right anymore; the levels seem good, but the playback sounds like you recorded it from another room.

After 40 years of working as a machinist, the last 30 with CNC, I like to do everything by hand. I do have a mini lathe and drill press, and a 10" band saw that isn't great, but makes some things faster. I found that the hardest part on guitars was doing the binding and inlay around the edge. Purfling is my nemesis on violins too. I'm more of a big picture guy, my eyes weren't made for small details.

I did cheat, and used a Dremel with a compass like attachment for the sound hole and inlay. But that was kind of like using a toy. That worked really well. I do like the hand work though.
Author:  Freeman [ Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
Ruby50 wrote:
Freeman - excellent choice of music for demonstration and the guitar sounds very balanced and crisp. Well done. The color of the wood turned out nice and the appointments are simple and effective. Why a classical - because you have a friend that can play great stuff on it?

Did you do the entire neck by hand? Dovetail or M+T joint? Did you get any splinters in your hands? How many pieces in the top and back - looks like the boards you re-sawed were pretty wide for a floor? I like your jig for holding the top during brace shaping. Do you have a jig for the slot head - did you do it by hand?

Looks like a fun project and I agree it is a success

Ed


Thanks Ed. Why a classical? Why not. I didn't have one. I might give it away.

The neck joint is Spanish heel altho it does not have the big swooping heel piece inside. Pretty much the way C&N do it and as far as I can tell, pretty much to the Hauser plans. Top and back are two pieces - not book matched but there is very little grain. Just typical long straight fir . The "jig" is actually a solera/workboard. It has a rim of cork so the dome of the top isn't crushed and it holds the guitar while I fitted the sides into the heel. If I was going to build lots of guitars this way I would have made it out of plywood and added a bunch of angle blocks to hold the side perpendicular - this was quick and dirty and seemed to work fine.

The slot head is by hand. I drilled a series of 5/8 holes in a line and just hogged the reset of the wood out with a chisel and rasp. Again, by my arbitrary rules I think that was OK, I usually use a router when I make a slot head.

One of the things I had my friend do was just sit and play scales, every key, across the fretboard and up and down the neck. Then I did it for him (not as well). I want to compare the strings and the frets, was there anything really wonky? We both agreed that was fairly well balanced and I apparently got the frets more or less right, nothing really bad stands out.

It was a fun project, kept me busy and since I've still got a bunch of that fir I might build something else.....
Author:  Ernie Kleinman [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
The Cl gtr has that flamenco growl on the bass notes . Impressive
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fir classical - a challenge
Awesome! I’m impressed with this whole undertaking and excecution.
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