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Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 build
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53582		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 build
I had posted early pictures of this project a couple of months ago, but thought I'd put the whole project out as a build thread. I'm in several high risk groups for Covid, so I've been sticking very close to home since March. Having overcome some other long term health issues, I have been able to work in the shop again for the first time in years. As a result, I've finished a couple of guitars and have a third well underway. I hadn't built a flat top in 40 years or more (I've built a lot of banjos, a couple of archtops and some ukes though), so I've been basically starting from scratch. This thread chronicles my second build--an all mahogany, cantilever neck, Van Eps style flush fret/scalloped fingerboard deep bodied L-00 type guitar. Probably actually closer to a Nick Lucas given the extra depth.

I bought the wood from Walter Lipton back in the 80s with the idea in mind of building an L-00 type guitar. Finally got around to doing it...

Anyway, I'll let the pictures do the talking. I think they're pretty self explanatory.

Dave
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
These pics show how the adjustable neck works--it's the same arrangement I've used on banjos for years.
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
More...
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
More yet...
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
And yet more...
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
And all finished. I'm really happy with the way it sounds and plays--not so happy with the finish, but so it goes. This is essentially guitar number two after all. The tone is amazingly balanced between the strings with a very piano-like quality. Nice percussive attack, lots of sustain, lots of sparkle. I don't know how much of this is due to the cantilevered neck and the effect that has on the pull on the bridge. I wanted a ragtime machine, and I think I got one...

Thanks for looking.

Dave
Author:  Ruby50 [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Dave

Well done - a beautiful instrument. Has the scalloped fretboard changed the sound? Is it easier to play? I have a 1933 L-00 with a cantilevered fretboard, and it does not touch the top except right at the join - is your neck touching on the top? What is the thickness at the head and the neck?

Love it

Ed M
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
That looks great Dave. Everything is simple, even the same wood everywhere, and then you see the scalloped fretboard. Oh, the front purfling is white, and the back black to blend with the button, or heel cap. Very subtle.

I love build photos. I get good ideas. I'm just starting my third, and I need ideas. Not that I use them all, I pretty much use whatever I come up with myself. But they get my mind thinking. The scale setting/bridge placement jig is pretty cool, and simple, and adjustable. Do the two holes locate the E pin holes so they are in line with the neck?

Now I know how to do the neck extension on the Staufer I've started. The adjustable neck part is different, set from the outside with a key. The neck holding fixture for shaping looks easier than holding by hand like I usually do.

I was thinking of using a simple, thin white purfling around the back of mine, and wondered how it would look. It looks good on the front of yours. Cool.

Nice instrument.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Thumbs up from here. Very nice build.
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Ruby50 wrote:
Dave

Well done - a beautiful instrument. Has the scalloped fretboard changed the sound? Is it easier to play? I have a 1933 L-00 with a cantilevered fretboard, and it does not touch the top except right at the join - is your neck touching on the top? What is the thickness at the head and the neck?

Love it

Ed M


Thanks! The scalloped board doesn't affect the sound at all--just makes it play nice. Feels like a fretless, but plays in tune. I had an L-00 that Fred Van Eps modified with one of his scalloped flush fret fingerboards like he used on his later banjos. Great guitar! My wife's cousin has it now. I've done several flush fret/scalloped board banjos, but this is the first guitar I've done that way.

The neck doesn't touch the top at all, and is adjustable vertically to be able to adjust the action easily. I've used this neck joint on banjos for many years. I'm not sure exactly what thicknesses you mean though.

Dave
Author:  rbuddy [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Hi Dave

I remember you from the banjo hangout some years back. Always enjoyed your post there too.

Very nice looking guitar! I've been experimenting with cantilevered fingerboards on guitars also.

When you mention adjustable neck joint, am I right in assuming the adjustment is up and down via the slots in the bolt plate and neck block and not a neck angle type adjustment? (Got it from your last post while I was typing.)

And another question -- is your aluminum bridge clamp commercial or shop built? I don't recall seeing one like that and it looks interesting, always looking for a better way to glue down bridges.

Thanks
Brian
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
rbuddy wrote:
Hi Dave

I remember you from the banjo hangout some years back. Always enjoyed your post there too.

Very nice looking guitar! I've been experimenting with cantilevered fingerboards on guitars also.

When you mention adjustable neck joint, am I right in assuming the adjustment is up and down via the slots in the bolt plate and neck block and not a neck angle type adjustment? (Got it from your last post while I was typing.)

And another question -- is your aluminum bridge clamp commercial or shop built? I don't recall seeing one like that and it looks interesting, always looking for a better way to glue down bridges.

Thanks
Brian


Hi,

The bridge clamp is actually steel--I got it from a guy on Ebay. It's nicely made, but I'm going to go back to using a vacuum clamp. I'm not altogether happy with the even-ness of pressure across the entire bridge that I get with this one. I think it's inherent in the design with more pressure on the back of the bridge than the front...

Dave
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Ken Nagy wrote:
The scale setting/bridge placement jig is pretty cool, and simple, and adjustable. Do the two holes locate the E pin holes so they are in line with the neck?


Thanks! The two holes actually are fitted with little nylon pins that fit into the saddle slot--the jig only gets the bridge in position lengthwise. I use a couple of straight edges to get it centered from side to side. Nothing fancy, but it works.

Dave
Author:  wbergman [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Maybe I missed it, but are there instructions for an easy way to scallop the finger board?
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
wbergman wrote:
Maybe I missed it, but are there instructions for an easy way to scallop the finger board?


Not really--Van Eps apparently used a sanding drum on his boards. I modeled mine in CAD and cut it on a CNC machine--I cut my standard fingerboards on CNC too. Either way, a scalloped board is a lot more work than a conventional fingerboard.

Dave
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Nice! Thanks for sharing

Pat
Author:  bcombs510 [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
A beauty, thanks for sharing. The cantilevered neck is on my list to try, it’s so sophisticated looking. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Looks great. With a cantilevered extension and no extra bracing to stabilize the headblock it will be interesting to see how much headblock rotation you get in it’s early life possibly requiring a neck set tweak.

Keep us updated on that would you? Although I have done that type of neck on a lot of Archtops I am just starting my first flatop with a cantilevered extension. I would be interested to know how much movement you got with your design on string up and later on.

Thanks
Author:  Colin North [ Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Nice!
Author:  ballbanjos [ Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Terence Kennedy wrote:
Looks great. With a cantilevered extension and no extra bracing to stabilize the headblock it will be interesting to see how much headblock rotation you get in it’s early life possibly requiring a neck set tweak.

Keep us updated on that would you? Although I have done that type of neck on a lot of Archtops I am just starting my first flatop with a cantilevered extension. I would be interested to know how much movement you got with your design on string up and later on.

Thanks


Time will tell, but I didn't get any measurable movement upon string up. The gap betwen the end of the fingerboard extension and the top hasn't changed. I don't think the usual popsicle brace does much to stabilize the headblock anyway, but the upper bout on this one was noticeably "livelier" than one with the extra brace/glued down fingerboard. But with the adjustable neck, even when the block does eventually move, it won't necessarily require a reset.

Dave
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Nice looking guitar.
How deep did the body wind up?
I cant figure out how the adjustable neck works. Does the neck adjustment raise up and down or tilt?
Author:  ballbanjos [ Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Clay S. wrote:
Nice looking guitar.
How deep did the body wind up?
I cant figure out how the adjustable neck works. Does the neck adjustment raise up and down or tilt?

It's 4 1/2" at the tailblock, 3 7/8" at the heel. The neck adjusts up and down--it has about 1/4" of travel available, but of course that's way more than would ever really be useful. It's just what the hardware I had machined for banjos accomodates.

Dave
Author:  Skarsaune [ Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Very nice - can't say I've ever seen a scalloped fretboard on an acoustic.

Let me know if you'd entertain a shop visit if/when your health/covid allows - I'm a mountain or two away in TN. Always like to learn things seeing how others work.
Author:  ballbanjos [ Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Skarsaune wrote:
Very nice - can't say I've ever seen a scalloped fretboard on an acoustic.

Let me know if you'd entertain a shop visit if/when your health/covid allows - I'm a mountain or two away in TN. Always like to learn things seeing how others work.


That would be great whenever things get a bit closer to normal. Maybe by then I'll have the rest of my shop moved up from Knoxville too! I'm actually in Knoxville loading some stuff up today. I'm not quite sure where I'll squeeze it in NC though, my shop is small....

Dave
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cantilever neck, flush fret scalloped fingerboard L-00 b
Are those bar frets?
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