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Pseudo go bar deck
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53627		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Pseudo go bar deck
I thought it would be good to have one, especially to put the braces on the back of the Staufer. I tried doing that on the little guitar I made for the grandsons, and I couldn't get it to bend lengthwise at all! I thought of my adjustable table, and the ceiling. I saw that some use a shelf on the wall; why not the ceiling?

It is made from 4 two foot long 2X4's and a 4 X 2 sheet of 1/2 plywood. I needed a 2 foot length to get the distance between the highest the table would go to the deck down to about 22 inches. Split two 2/4's in half for posts, and the others in fours for braces. The plywood is cut for a 2 X 2 deck, and the rest into four 3" wide pieces to mount the deck.

I was going to use 1/2 dowel stock I have, but it is oversize. I had a couple pieces of some kind of 1/2 plastic that is on size, so I used that. They don't do much, the thing has to be (massaged) into place.

The posts WERE square; both on the ceiling, and on the deck; but after screwing, and gluing them on the deck, when I put it on the ceiling, I ended up with tilt. Cool. It fits on tight, and is really stable, so I will block the table up off the wheels; that should make it more stable anyways; and set the one side up higher.

I just need to buy another 2 X 4, I don't have anything laying around.

I have a 4 foot long 2 X 4 to cut into sticks. 3/4" by what? I have no idea.

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Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pseudo go bar deck
I have mine attached to the ceiling too. The big advantage is you have unrestricted access.

You might want to put in a couple of angled braces to keep the deck stable. Otherwise it could start to move sideways or fore and aft.

Also, it looks a bit close to the work surface.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pseudo go bar deck
That's with the table all the way up, about 22 inches. I think it will drop almost a foot. I need to make a form with the back arches on it, and make some bars and try it out. I didn't think about the instruments, they aren't usually there. I'll move them into the other room.
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pseudo go bar deck
I was reading that some of the Spanish makers used ropes and wedges wrapped around the solera instead of a go bar deck. I thought about using the relatively cheap ratchet straps from home depot and plastic wedges. It would allow me to place the work in the humidity controlled closet immediately after glue up.
Author:  TimAllen [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pseudo go bar deck
Mine is attached to the ceiling too. I'm sure yours will work fine. Mine has about 25% of the structure yours has; for example, the uprights are 4 scraps of fir that are about 5" wide x 1.25" thick. It's been working fine for a dozen years. A lot of go bars can bend the ceiling up a little, but this hasn't ever damaged anything.

An adjustable table beneath would be nice. I have a doubled up sheet of plywood, three 2 X 4's that are planed to have exactly the same height, and a couple other pieces of flat wood, and for each operation I stack up a platform beneath the deck that's the right height. It wastes several minutes of my time each time I do this, but it works. It's simple, like its owner.
Author:  Ken Nagy [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pseudo go bar deck
Tim, Yours are a bit bigger than mine; I split the 2X4's in half, so they are only 1 3/4 X 1 1/2. Add in the plywood bracing, and you'd have to do a bunch of math, or tests to see what was stronger!

Clay, I've had WAY more trouble with sudden drops, or rises in humidity than anything else. Even with a dehumidifier on, and it being about 50% all year, one time it will spiked and fingerboards flew off, and two days ago it dropped overnight to 40%, and the heel of a neck broke free from the back on one. The water in the sump pump just started dripping yesterday. It's been dry since May.

It's hard to believe it could drop or raise 10% overnight in a basement, and even harder to believe that it would cause any problems. I took a violin to a MVA meeting one time, and they speaker tried an experiment on it, and the top came loose at the saddle where he was raising the height to test sound at a flatter string angle. Yeah, it was putting extra pressure on the top there; but it was glued; it should hold. It was winter, and my basement, and house isn't dry. The library was.

Maybe some glue is less humidity sensitive? Isn't fish glue supposed to be good, unless it is really humid? I like using it, has stickiness, tons of open time, and drys hard.
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pseudo go bar deck
Although your "average" humidity may hover around 50 %, you may find the daily hourly humidity to vary greatly. Check the hourly humidity charts for your area to see how much it changes throughout the day. When you consider that the average house has a complete air exchange every 30 to 60 minutes you can see that the indoor humidity will vary along with the outdoor humidity unless some form of humidity control is used.
It is believed that Antonio Torres worked late at night because that is when the humidity levels were most propitious for doing glue ups. By picking the hours when the humidity levels were naturally ideal he could build without artificial climate control.
People who work in basements (or in workshops intermittently heated (such as myself)), often wall off a smaller area with plastic sheeting to create an environmentally controlled place to store "work in progress" during the times humidity control is critical. One reason I was intrigued by the rope and solera glue up technique is that I could then move it to the humidity controlled plastic lined closet I use to condition the wood.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pseudo go bar deck
TimAllen wrote:
Mine is attached to the ceiling too. I'm sure yours will work fine. Mine has about 25% of the structure yours has; for example, the uprights are 4 scraps of fir that are about 5" wide x 1.25" thick. It's been working fine for a dozen years. A lot of go bars can bend the ceiling up a little, but this hasn't ever damaged anything.

An adjustable table beneath would be nice. I have a doubled up sheet of plywood, three 2 X 4's that are planed to have exactly the same height, and a couple other pieces of flat wood, and for each operation I stack up a platform beneath the deck that's the right height. It wastes several minutes of my time each time I do this, but it works. It's simple, like its owner.


I don't worry too much about adjusting the height of my surface to the ceiling mounted top of my "deck" I errored on the side of having my bars a bit too long. If I have an operation that it taller than usual, I just have more bend in the bars. It is mildly inconvenient but that is not a big deal. Once the bars reach the buckling point, bending them more does not increase the pressure in any meaningful way. It just means you have more bow in the bars to work around while placing the other bars. And, you have to be more thoughtful when removing them but that is a good thing so you don't get complacent.
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