I had no idea there were so many, mostly useless, guitar gadgets out there
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| Guitar for an arthritic left hand http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=53670 |
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| Author: | TRein [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
A customer has asked me to build a guitar that could potentially help his playing due to arthritis. A big issue he has is when playing a C chord in first position he can't curl his first finger enough to keep from muting the open first string. He's wondering about increasing the distance between the 1st and 2nd string. I am also wondering about decreasing the fingerboard radius from 16" to 12", which would put the 1st string lower in relation to the 2nd. The OLF is a diverse forum with professionals from many walks of life. If you as a builder have not addressed this issue then perhaps you have in your primary career in the health sector. Thanks. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
I have some personal experience here, I have arthritis in both hands and was also having trouble with muting the high E while playing the C chord. I have tried wider necks and different radius on the fretboard but didn't like them. I play a lot, usually 30 minutes or more daily and several hours each Sunday at church. I've found that if I skip more than a day or two my fingers tend to stiffen up so I try to get the guitar in my hands every day. I still play a 1 3/4" nut with a 16" radius at the nut and mediums on a 25.4" scale. I've found that a really good setup is a must have, especially low clearances at the nut. I also use around 0.002" relief on the treble side with a bit more relief on the bass side that I put into the frets when I level them. The action is 4/64" treble and 5/64" bass. Gotta have a real good level fretboard to get away with it and I put in some fall-away too. Finally one thing that has helped a lot is that I started using a strap all the time (I usually play sitting on a stool) and elevate the neck into almost a classical playing position. This changed the angle of my left hand which helped me a lot. Good luck with this, arthritis sucks. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
This may not be any help, but might give you something to chor(d)tle over: http://www.chordmaster.org/competitors.html Historically they did devices like this for guitars also, and apparently still do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovqFzjBT-GI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmJkKiUNll4 - gadget at 3:45, but the whole video is entertaining. Another device for open tunings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nbGW5kAQFs - Gadget at 2:30 - and yes I got sucked into watching all his guitar gadget videos. I didn't know there was so much junk out there for not playing the guitar as a guitar. |
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| Author: | Dave m2 [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
I think Steve has an important point. Clearly one can play guitar in a low slung position but for us mere mortals the classical playing position does put the left hand in a much more comfortable place where it almost naturally curls over the fretboard. Dave |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
I had no idea there were so many, mostly useless, guitar gadgets out there
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
+1 for Steve’s comments. It seems that most folks I build for have either an arthritic hand, or a bad shoulder. Low nut and 12th fret action, along with a short scale, can help a lot with the interface problem. A multi-scale fretboard can help with ergonomics, a wedge body can go a long way in taking care of shoulder issues. I think one thing that is often overlooked is playing technique. Good posture, having the lower bout between your knees, neck up, and having your thumb on the back of the neck (not wrapped around it) can help a lot with playing comfort and prevention of future injury. My 2¢ M |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
https://paul-galbraith.com/bio Above is the web site for Paul Galbraith. He plays guitar held like a cello. This is not a totally new idea, because occasionally you can see an old Renaissance painting with the players holding their "guitar" or lute in their lap, vertically. This position much changes the positions of both hands and is worth considering. Paul's guitar has a custom made bracket to extend a pole to the floor, like a cello, but some people can just hold the guitar in their laps, vertically. I think the particular bracket on Paul's guitar is patented. If you look closely through his photos, you will also see that he augments the guitar by placing the bottom extension pole not on the floor, but onto a specially made resonating box. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
+1 for Steve and Michael's comments on neck position. The classical playing position can make a world of difference for the right shoulder and left hand. A teacher would be helpful in making the transition. |
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| Author: | Chris Pile [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
I usually recommend a set of silk'n'steel strings, as they are easy to fret. They don't sound as good as bronze strings, though. And - there's always tuning down a step or two. |
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| Author: | ballbanjos [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
My hands have become arthritic over the past decade or so. I wasn't able to play at all for close to a year, but have managed through various immunosuppresants and antiinflamatories to get a lot of use back. It'll never be like it used to be, but I can play again. I've had to go from the 1 3/4" or 1 7/8" wide 16 inch radius fairly chunky neck that I always preferred in the past to a much narrower, thinner, 12" radius neck much like a Les Paul would have. Low action, short scale and decent playing posture have all helped a lot. I still try to play some of my older guitars, but I can play a lot better with the narrower, thinner neck. Dave |
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| Author: | wbergman [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic right hand |
I actually do not understand the description of the client's difficulty, but here is some more information. I play classical. I let my left hand position gradually get too relaxed over the years, so that barring was difficult because my wrist was a bit too far behind the fingerboard. For barring classical, it is normal to prepare for the barre by pushing the wrist slightly away, i.e. slightly towards the front of the fingerboard plane. This can also be accomplished by pushing the elbow slightly forward--same result. It is pretty much very difficult for most people to place the barre properly if the wrist is not pushed forward. I was getting by using my middle knuckle of my middle finger to lean on my index finger--not the best practice. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
Edited title of post. His is a left hand (fretting) issue. Seems like most who replied intuited this. Thanks |
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| Author: | Ken Lewis [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
A twelve fret to body join might be the ticket, would shorten the left hand reach requirement by 'bout an inch and a half or so. 12 fretters sound lovely to boot. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
In addition to the twelve fret neck, a smaller bodied guitar and open tunings that make for easier chord shapes may be other things he could try. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
Lots of options depending on what he's trying to do with his music. I'm limited to a standard guitar since I play in multiple keys off of charts in an orchestra; at some point I probably won't be able to play the music properly and I'll have to quit. If he's playing for himself or in an informal group then open tunings and such could be workable. |
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| Author: | Mark Mc [ Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
I would definitely consider a fan fret layout. I have two fan fret instruments and it is certainly more ergonomic for the left hand. Your customer would want to play one to feel it before making the decision (go to a big guitar shop and try the shredding electric multiscales - just for the feel of the neck). A few people have also mentioned short scale length. This makes a significant difference also. Get him to try his existing guitar with a capo on the first fret and tuned back down to concert pitch. If he finds it easier to play with reduced tension and less stretch to the higher frets then he can be confident that he will like a short scale guitar. |
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| Author: | Tim Mullin [ Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
My wife suffers from bad arthritis in her smallish hands, much like your friend. Although she’s not a guitar player, she just spent the last hour with me doing experiments with various instruments. In her case, the ability to curl fingers is reduced, but also the ability to stretch along the fingerboard. The arthritis has made her hands very weak, despite being an expert knitter. After trying various things, we concluded: 1. Playing position is perhaps the most important. A classical position is by far the best for her. The guitar needs to be well supported on the left leg, preferably on a foot block. The left hand needs to completely relax. 2. Scale length is more important than nut width. She really struggled stretching at the first position to make chord shapes across three fret intervals, although in her case muting the first string for a C shape was not so much a problem. Putting a capo on the first or even second fret made things much easier. 3. Flatter fingerboards were best, and she found thin, wider necks the easiest. Narrow, small-radius fingerboards made things worse, even though she has small hands. 4. A smaller-body guitar is much easier to hold in a classical position — she would want a 12-fret 00 or similar. A smaller soprano guitar tuned G standard might be easier still. She has not trained to do barre chords, but I doubt she could manage those on any guitar. Some things to try and think about. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | TRein [ Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Guitar for an arthritic left hand |
Thanks for the well reasoned replies. |
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