Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm looking to upgrade my drill press in the future. I currently have a Mastercraft bench top and Buffalo floor model, both have excessive runout. I've thought about rebuilding the Buffalo, but I may not achieve the results I'm after.

What brand and models have you had good luck with that don't have excessive runout?

Clausing.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I don't know what kind of runout you're looking for, but I have a cheap Porter Cable Model #PCB660DP floor model drill press and I measure .0015 on a chucked bit. It's no Clausing, but it's fine for what I need. Has a snazzy laser guide on it too that actually works well.

I do have a milling machine that I use for really precise drilling in metal though.

Dave

I have an 18" Delta that is very nice. I got it about 10 years ago but they still look the same. The laser guide is worthless (like most of them IMO). Of course, it's not a Clausing either but it doesn't cost as much

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

What is runout in terms of a drill press?

It's the amount of not-quite-concentric movement of the spindle as it spins if that makes any sense...

Dave

Runout is the amount of "wobble" about the center axis of the machine. It makes your holes bigger. Its effected by bearings and chuck alignment.

Holy cow. You have one of those Chris?

Runout as measured is double what your dial gauge reads on the arbor or on a chucked rod or bit as you spin things by hand. .003" to .004" or so is very good. Only higher quality presses or especially mills regularly are around that or better. My steel City is around .003" with a drill rod in the chuck. An even easier way is to drill a hole in something like mild steel and then check the diameter of the hole with your calipers against the diameter of your bit. Try more than one as bits can be out of whack as well.

The Buffalo should be very good, unless the quill is bent. The chuck may not be squarely seated on the taper too.

Have you tried OWWM.org for tips & help? I used to be active on it and there were a lot of very passionate and knowledgeable members including Bob Vaughan. Bob used to write for Fine Woodworking but he got in trouble because he wanted to teach readers how to fix up old machines instead of buying new ones. In my experience, almost all of the old machines are superior to the new ones unless you want to spend well over $1k.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Runout is usually from crappy bearings or from the taper in the spindle being ground on an inferior machine, i.e. inaccurate. There is no excuse for buying a machine with runout that won't complete the task it was purchased to do. It is useless. If it is an older machine and the spindle is good you should be able to buy replacement bearings somewhere to refresh the accuracy.

My drill press I purchased in 1977 from an army surplus store. It is a Taiwanese build and the name KING KONG is prominently displayed on the front. The Taiwanese Company, now Sheen Gong, didn't realize that King Kong was a big gorilla. They had to clear them out, I grabbed my dial indicator, checked the spindle, and it has worked for me very well for the last 43 years. Runout on my drill press is less than .001 measured.

Think what should be said is measure before you buy. The older machines can be better especially if they use cast Iron in the head.

No, but if you're going to buy something - get good stuff, and Clausing is world class. Of course - if I was rich guy, I'd have a couple Bridgeports (one for wood, one for metal) and a good LeBlond lathe (maybe two). It's good to have standards, you know?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I got mine for $50 on Craigslist. It needed bearings so the total went to about $70. Yes, I'm gloating.

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I'm green with envy....

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I forget what it cost, but I have a pwermatic 17" and never a regret.

I have an 18" buffalo that I rebuilt. Amazing machine. If you have the time, rebuild yours.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

I bought a Nova Voyager (18” variable speed) this summer. It has electronic variable speed (all the way down to 50 rpm) which means I can dial the right speed for what I am doing instead of just leaving it at the lowest possible. I am very pleased with it. I measure .0005” runout at the quill and .002” runout consistently on a bit in the chuck. It replaced a Delta DP400 which ran pretty true but had a short throw and always ran at the lowest speed. And, the Nova is very quiet.

The Nova's are kickass and one of the best out there. If my 10 year old Steel City didn't do everything I wanted, I'd buy one with my lottery winnings for sure!!

This is my "drill press"...

I got it because it turned out that it only costs 2x as much as a brand new drill press that is large enough to do luthier work. Not kidding.

I use it for drilling holes, routing truss rod channel, thickness sanding back and sides, making jigs, machining stuff, drilling bridge pin holes and then routing for saddle slots, and more.

It is a very useful machine, though it does take time to set it up for a task...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Well done.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I have a Jet benchtop which was not too pricy and feels like a good solid tool. Although I haven't actually measured the runout, judging by the results it is pretty small.

Cheers Dave

Are you doing metal work? I've used all kinds of drill presses: at the school, in my own shop, at community maker spaces. For woodworking, I've never had a drill press that didn't have the tolerances necessary. I can't imagine one so bad that it wouldn't drill acceptable 10mm holes for tuner pegs, 1/8" holes for locating pins, etc. Heck, I've seen a Japanese YouTuber who made his own out of a hand drill and a plywood jig. It's amazing the things he does with it. Seriously, check this guy out: https://youtu.be/n-neSE8mwDg

The compromises I've made have always been in travel, swing, or power. Runout has been a non issue for me. I'm thinking of treating myself to a new drill press, but for what I do a Bridgeport mill would be serious overkill. Of course, if you are doing more than build some hobby guitars and furniture you may need much more.

My first floor standing drill press was a Rockwell/Delta ~ 1990 vintage and it was fine for wood work and poor for anything metal related. Moved up to a variable speed Powermatic around 2005 and it was a big improvement but still left me wanting. I bought a precision Jacobs chuck and that made a big accuracy improvement, a good chuck is important.

But I'm still looking to upgrade again but what I'm looking for is an older Delta with the locking quill and split housing making quill fit adjustable. I find that is where a lot of play comes from -- having a quill with play in the head.

If you have the opportunity to check a machine first hand, extend the quill all the way down and see if there is any play in the chuck side to side/front to back. If there is, keep looking.

Older drill presses with locking/split housings, making quill fit somewhat adjustable will do a lot to keep things tight for a long time.

If the head has a split in it, up the middle and a bolt for adjustment, you are on to gold in drill presses in my opinion. Keep an eye on craigs list. I do.

edit--Meant to add, even though luth work is primarily wood and most drill presses do alright there, it is when you branch out to do some metal work or jig making that precision becomes highly desirable.

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Brian R, Wood Mechanic
N8ZED

Some great observations. The split head design allowing for future adjustments is what sold me on the Steel City way back when. The higher quality Nova also uses this design as do older Deltas and other quality presses from days gone by. Engineered obsolescence is a real thing these days unless you want to spend a lot more.

I bought this drill press new 42 years ago.
It’s an American made Rockwell.
It’s drilled thousands upon thousands of holes
It’s done everything I’ve ever asked it to do
At some point I added a better chuck to it and a table that tilts.
It has the split housing so you can take the play out of the quill.




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